Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Pentax / Samsung dSLR, K Mount Mirrorless

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 14, 2012, 9:00 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
penolta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California USA
Posts: 5,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG
Let me ask - is the X-5 sealed? Having a fold-out LCD would make weather-sealing more difficult. Sealing seems to be one of the attributes Pentax is relying upon as a competitive advantage.
I should have added that the K-01 is not weather sealed, has no EVF, and certainly could have profited by having an articulated LCD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penolta View Post
A case in point: I was preparing to take picturtes at the bird feeder for the monthly "meal time" challenge with the K5 and 70-300mm Sigma when my dog treed a squirrel - a great but fast moving moving photo-op so I grabbed what was at hand - wrong camera and wrong lens for the job. I got some good pictures [but] . . . . I will shortly post some of them to illustrate the point.
Here is the promised thread:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/pe...rong-lens.html
__________________
.
.
If life brings you lemons, you can make lemonade.

Last edited by penolta; Sep 14, 2012 at 9:21 PM.
penolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:11 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Wingman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hebron, Kentucky (northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati):KCVG
Posts: 4,319
Default

Too bad that Pentax has yet to announce a FF. Just heard that Nikon announced yet another FF (D600) priced well below their big boys!

Jehan

Last edited by Wingman; Sep 15, 2012 at 7:54 AM.
Wingman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:45 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Biro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 835
Default

I don't know. Ricoh has owned Pentax less than a year. A lot of people on sites across the Internet are expressing disappointment over the latest Pentax products. But I must be in that distinct minority of photographers who realize they don't need more than 16mp and, frankly, are unwilling to pay for more. I suspect the improvements to the K-5 will be worthwhile.

I would have appreciated weather-resistant sealing in the new DA 18-270. I think the inclusion of WR would have instantly made that lens a home run and turned it into a modern classic. But what I'd really like is an improved Pentax flash unit with WR.

What I am worried about is Pentax's current pricing policies. I understand what they are trying to accomplish. But they are getting ahead of themselves. They must create demand first to justify the higher prices.

Last edited by Biro; Sep 14, 2012 at 10:47 PM.
Biro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2012, 11:37 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
NMRecording's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eastern Appalachains
Posts: 866
Default

I agree Biro,

Im not saying Pentax doesn't make great cameras.. I love them. But if they're going to start making true top tier pro lenses, they should combine it with a top tier pro camera as well. It seems kinda funny to stick a 7 grand lens on a thousand dollar camera to me. Pricing aside, the camera body just doesn;t hang with the competition and if their current line-up is the route they remain to stay, they should be making sacrifices to keep the cost in the range that caters to its current customer base.
NMRecording is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 15, 2012, 3:35 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
snostorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago Suburb, IL, USA
Posts: 2,770
Default

I've waited to post my reactions to the announcements for the most part since my thoughts are evolving.

K5 II and IIs -- I think that any improvement in AF will be welcome. If the K30 (still with SAFOX IXi hardware like the K-5) is noticeably better than the K-5, with the same AF sensor, then I'd expect the new SAFOX X sensor to be a further improvement. I'm a bit disappointed that they chose to stay with 11 AF sensors, but if the -3Ev sensitivity is indeed true, then it might be impressive since AF performance for me is already pretty much adequate for my shooting.

I like that they stuck with the 16MP sensor. The sensor performance seems to get better the more mature the sensor is, and with one more year of development, the 24 MP sensor should be that much better when it replaces the current one.

At first, I didn't see this as enough improvement to upgrade, but it might actually be with the removal of the AA filter on the IIs. With the actual degree of improvement as yet to be seen, I'll give some others the chance to work with the new models to see. . . so I'm on hold until I get more information.

I personally don't think that the flagship model is the one to debut an articulating screen. This is more appropriate for a lower level model IMO. I think that the entry and mid level bodies are better placed for such a feature. I shoot the flagship for still camera features and performance, and have yet to use LV or video extensively. I've played with these, but want my DSLR primarily as a still camera.

I could understand the incorporation of these features in DSLRs before the introduction of APS-C and 4/3 MILCs. With high IQ cameras available that only use EVFs, the adaptations that have to be made to DSLRs to allow them to work with an EVF seems like wasted effort and complexity. I do like the idea of using the CD focusing to calibrate the PD focusing for individual lenses, and using CD focusing for very critical manual focusing as potentially important features, so I'd keep them, but I'd save the future development to the lower level DSLRs and mirrorless camera bodies. The marketing advantage for Pentax would be that Pentaxians don't seem to mind buying a mid or entry level camera to get not only a lower priced backup for their flagship body, but also to get things like better video and such. I'd concentrate on making the flagship the best still camera possible and leave the gadgets to the lower levels.

The DA 560 is not for me. I shoot my super tele lens combos (300 f2.8 + TCs so 510mm f4.8, 600mm f5.6, and 714mm f6.7) a lot at pretty short distances (8-12 feet), and the DA 560 has a MFD of over 18 feet -- too long by about 2x for me. It uses telescope based optics which are optimized for long distance shooting, and that's not what I do primarily.

I would rather have liked to see a remake of the FA* 300 f2.8 with updated lead-free glass, and switchable SDM/DC/ring motor and screw drive AF. Pro quality AF 1.4x and 2x TCs would not go unappreciated either. Even at $5K -$6K, the price would not have appeared quite as extreme since this would have been in line with the competition, and the lenses would be more versatile with the TCs.

Nikon and Canon get lots of exposure to new high end, big buck lenses. They have guaranteed sales and user exposure through a large network of rental houses. They have mfg reps at all major event covered by pro photogs, and they have a supply of these lenses to lend out to get reactions from the field. They have legions of pro shooters who can buy thses lenses and write them off.

Pentax is just getting reestablished in B&M stores and few shooters will purchase this lens without hands on experience with it or quite a few testimonials as to its quality. The DA (instaead of DA*) designation doesn't instill confidence that this is a lens worth $7K either. It's also big -- a telescopic design lens as opposed to a telephoto design lens which uses fewer elements and has an overall length that's equal to the FL (when you include the register distance -- I think). Telephoto lenses use more elements to make it physically shorter than FL, and these can be utilized to shorten the MFD also. It's relatively lightweight at 6.7 lbs though, and the rarity of long premium glass for Pentax will probably prompt some sales once the street price is established. If it's a stellar performer, it could actually be a success (depending on sales expectations), but I won't be a buyer regardless.

I already have a DA 18-250 that I bought very cheap from Ritz when they were closing out their Pentax gear during the Wolf/Ritz bankruptcy. The price of the new DA 18-270 is beyond what I'd pay for a super zoom, even though I like mine, and use it quite a bit with my K-5 since the high ISO performance of the body mitigates the slow f6.3 at the long end. It's a convenient carry around and performs well in that capacity even though it's a bit short for me. If I want a longer walk around, I sacrifice the wide end and take the DA 55-300 that I obtained used, also at a good price.

I'm pleased that the Q still seems to be being developed. The Q10 is a lower end model with a plastic body, but all of the features of the original. I won't be buying the new body since the sensor improvements will likely not be that significant and the sensor doesn't appear to support focus peaking which would be a nice feature for adapted lens MF use. The fact that the new plastic Q model has all the features of the original encourages me to think that the line will continue with the emphasis to the high end of the compact sensor MILCs -- just what I want. . .

The OEM K to Q lens adapter and the 83-250 EQ f2.8 constant zoom will be purchased as soon as possible though. The adapter will have an integral shutter assembly which will allow external flash at 1/250 with an external flash and a firmware update will allow SR capability with adapted lenses if things go as reported. Current adapters without the shutter force the camera to use the digital shutter which will only sync to 1/13 which is unusable for handheld outdoor macro with flash use.

Bottom line, Pentax will get some of my money soon. . . should make for some fun. ..

Scott

Last edited by snostorm; Sep 15, 2012 at 3:41 AM.
snostorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 15, 2012, 12:44 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
penolta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California USA
Posts: 5,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snostorm
I personally don't think that the flagship model is the one to debut an articulating screen. This is more appropriate for a lower level model IMO. I think that the entry and mid level bodies are better placed for such a feature. I shoot the flagship for still camera features and performance, and have yet to use LV or video extensively. I've played with these, but want my DSLR primarily as a still camera.
Sony has put articulated LCDs on all their DSLRs and SLTs - even on their new flagship, the full frame A99. With the share of the market they have grabbed, you can't argue with their success.

The articulated LCD allows great flexibility in shooting -- not only low level shooting, but also over the head (in a crowd), to the side (literally around corners), viewing from in front of the camera, and viewing a vertical screen while mounted on a microscope or a waist level screen on an astronomical telescope - especially invaluable to a wildlife photographer from difficult positions, in heavy brush, rough terrain, or while otherwise hidden from the target. Also for tabletop photography. This is why I find myself using my Sonys more than my Pentaxes, and the reason some photographers have avoided buying or even left Pentax altogether.

I may have to buy a lesser X-5 just to have a Pentax with one! While a theoretically better APSC camera, the K-01 has been a big disappointment to me - with no EVF it badly needs an articulated LCD. By the time I decided to return it, I had missed Amazon's deadline by a week. I bought this camera for close-up work because of its peaking feature (which works very well, incidentally - even better than Sony's), but I am beyond lying on my belly to get a low-level closeup; and have you ever tried holding a camera steady at arms length while squatting on the balls of your feet to get a low level closeup, all the while trying to focus manually or waiting for the camera's slow contrast detection AF to find focus? Same for telephotos, but even more hunting there. It may be OK with primes, but forget all but the shortest zoom lenses. It is good for tabletop photography and landscapes, but that is about all as far as I am concerned. I have to admit it is a great looking camera, but looks don't take pictures.
__________________
.
.
If life brings you lemons, you can make lemonade.

Last edited by penolta; Sep 15, 2012 at 12:52 PM.
penolta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 15, 2012, 1:48 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 3,076
Default

Interesting to read the different comments.

K-5 11, 11s- Surprised that Pentax only offered essentially a bit of an update on the K-5 and that they used two models to replace the K-5. Especially considering that the K-5 has been out for 2 years and that Ricoh took over Pentax a year ago or so.

I was surprised that they didn't use the latest Sony sensor....the 24 MP and continue to us the K-5's sensor. Good sensor, but even the new entry market Nikon DSLR (3200 ?) uses the new Sony 24 MP sensor.

BTW, I have a K-5 and I like it very much, but don't see enough in either the 11 or 11s to replace my K-5 with either of them.

I do think that as one previous poster said that something big is coming from Pentax, just not here yet. Maybe a FF, maybe a truly new model other than a refreshed K-5.

560 MM lens, F 5.6- I knew this was coming, but I didn't know it was going to be around $ 7,000. Wow. Maybe this lens is part of a future road map that will feature more ultra high end lens. I dunno. The price was a surprise and the market, as others have said...who will buy ?

I thought that the 560 F 5.6 might be similar to the very nice, robust Canon 400 L, F 5.6. This is an excellent lens, metal body, v. good glass and in Canada sells for around $ 1500-1600. I assumed the Pentax 560 would go for around $ 2000 CAD....given the longer focal length and be similar in build and specs to the Canon 400 L F 5.6.

18-270 re-badged Tamron- I was hoping for a Pentax design, not a rebadged after market lens. Not that there is anything wrong with the Tamron.

I just can't figure out Pentax-Ricoh's overall short and long term planning.

Photokina and....:

Two relatively minor updates of the flagship K-5.

A premium 560mm F 5.6 that costs $ 7000.

A re-badged third party, lens.

I have a lot of money in digital Pentax gear. Three digital SLR bodies, about 9 lenses, a lot of accessories.

I've been a Pentaxian for many years ...but I don't know where they are going.

I've got an idea where Nikon and Canon are going, but not Pentax.

Anyone with a clearer idea than me ?
lesmore49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 15, 2012, 11:57 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Biro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 835
Default

Les, all I can offer is that my gut tells me there's a lot going on behind the scenes at Pentax and that it may take a while for everything to become clear. But I still have high hopes that in the end Pentax will have a full and well-rounded product lineup.

The good thing is that most of us have some solid cameras and lenses that should last us quite a few more years. So time is on our side. Meanwhile, I'm hedging my bets by simply holding off on more Pentax purchases until A) I actually need something, such as if my K-5 breaks or B) the smoke begins to clear and that product lineup I'm talking about begins to emerge.
Biro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 16, 2012, 6:25 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
snostorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago Suburb, IL, USA
Posts: 2,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by penolta View Post
Sony has put articulated LCDs on all their DSLRs and SLTs - even on their new flagship, the full frame A99. With the share of the market they have grabbed, you can't argue with their success.

The articulated LCD allows great flexibility in shooting -- not only low level shooting, but also over the head (in a crowd), to the side (literally around corners), viewing from in front of the camera, and viewing a vertical screen while mounted on a microscope or a waist level screen on an astronomical telescope - especially invaluable to a wildlife photographer from difficult positions, in heavy brush, rough terrain, or while otherwise hidden from the target. Also for tabletop photography. This is why I find myself using my Sonys more than my Pentaxes, and the reason some photographers have avoided buying or even left Pentax altogether.

I may have to buy a lesser X-5 just to have a Pentax with one! While a theoretically better APSC camera, the K-01 has been a big disappointment to me - with no EVF it badly needs an articulated LCD. By the time I decided to return it, I had missed Amazon's deadline by a week. I bought this camera for close-up work because of its peaking feature (which works very well, incidentally - even better than Sony's), but I am beyond lying on my belly to get a low-level closeup; and have you ever tried holding a camera steady at arms length while squatting on the balls of your feet to get a low level closeup, all the while trying to focus manually or waiting for the camera's slow contrast detection AF to find focus? Same for telephotos, but even more hunting there. It may be OK with primes, but forget all but the shortest zoom lenses. It is good for tabletop photography and landscapes, but that is about all as far as I am concerned. I have to admit it is a great looking camera, but looks don't take pictures.

Hi penolta,

I understand you points and actually agree with most. I probably wasn't clear in my post. My point about not wanting an articulating screen on my flagship camera is that I use this as my main camera, and always with the OVF. I want real time in the VF, and this can't be compromised. I once read an article about Sports Illustrated switching to digital bodies from film. It took their pro staff photographers almost a full year to start getting the same quality captures from the digital bodies because of the minuscule extra lag between shutter actuation and capture (not even noticeable by us mortals. . .). My use obviously isn't as critical, as my livelihood is not on the line, but especially considering my constantly slowing reflexes, I just can't tolerate the lag. The shots I like to get depend on timing. I want to capture "personality", character or attitude in my bird shots. I need to react to the GBH who cocks his head to the side a fraction of a second before it strikes so I can capture his head entering the water. It's hard enough with an OVF -- and though the new EVFs that Sony especially have developed are astoundingly fast, I know in my brain that what I would be seeing through the viewfinder is a view that is already in the past when displayed.

The bottom line is that I want my OVF still camera to be optimized for my requirements -- certainly selfish, but aren't we all . . . I want my main shooter to shoot stills. I can accept LV, but only as it supports my still camera. Give me LV for dead-on accurate manual focusing and automated calibration of the PD micro focus adjustment system. Leave out the video and advanced LV features and give me more internal memory cache, more battery capacity, and more in-camera processing power.

I do appreciate the endless possibilities for different shooting angles, and if that is a priority for enough circumstances, then I will resign myself to get a different camera for those situations. For me, a high end version of the K-01 would be my choice because IMO, it's the right concept, just not implemented well enough. It the right concept because it utilizes an already existing lens lineup allowing full lens functionality, and the body is a much better match for the sizes the lenses have to be for the format. It needs a state of the art OLED EVF and rear screen. It needs fast CD or a hybrid sensor with PD AF, and it needs an articulating screen.

IMO, APS-C MILCs are the platform to develop EVF technology -- and bring them as close as they can get to DSLR performance with that technology. Give me NEX 7 features in a K01 body (doesn't need to be a "designer" body tho. . .) with an articulating screen, and I'll buy it if it's under $1500. In fact, Give me NEX 7 features (with or without the articulating screen) in a slightly larger Q system body (the EVF can even be an accessory add-on), and I'd buy it too. . .

As far as DSLRs go, I can understand the "do it all" design concept from a marketing standpoint, so I have no objection to this, but it's more suited to a lower level body IMO. Go ahead and make the station wagon DSLR at a lower level -- I want the stripped down sports car.

That's all I was saying. . .

Scott
snostorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 4:43 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 3,076
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biro View Post
Les, all I can offer is that my gut tells me there's a lot going on behind the scenes at Pentax and that it may take a while for everything to become clear. I think you maybe right in your assessment. I read an account in another forum that this well may be the case. But I still have high hopes that in the end Pentax will have a full and well-rounded product lineup.I share your hope.

The good thing is that most of us have some solid cameras and lenses that should last us quite a few more years. So time is on our side. Meanwhile, I'm hedging my bets by simply holding off on more Pentax purchases until A) I actually need something, such as if my K-5 breaks or B) the smoke begins to clear and that product lineup I'm talking about begins to emerge.
I'm in good shape....Pentax bodies and lens wise. At this point I don't really need anything else, but I'm considering another Limited lens, having been very impressed with my new(er) Pentax 70mm F 2.4 Limited.

Les
lesmore49 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:25 AM.