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Old Sep 17, 2012, 10:25 PM   #1
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Default No Pentax Full Frame- is this a disappointment ?

Many Pentaxians seem to be disappointed that Pentax has not come out with a full frame DSLR yet.

For awhile I wanted a full frame....I considered the Canon 5D2. Didn't get one.

Got a K-5 ASP-C sensor DSLR instead.

I know the advantages of a full frame, but I find that my K-5 does all I want and more.

I blow my pics up...maximum... to about 8' X 10'. I think an 11' X 14' would work out fine.

I find the details in 8' X 10'....using available light, outdoors to be excellent.

In my film days I used (rented) Pentax 6 X 7 medium format and Mamiya TLR 6 X 6 (owned).

I find the final product from my K-5 (the photo) at 8 X 10 to easily meet the same standards I had with my medium format.

I have some friends that use FFers'. Wonderful cameras....but I don't notice a huge difference in photo quality...dare I say....very little...if any difference.

Is there a significant difference in end product between a premium quality DSLR (like a K-5)...using high end lenses (Limited) and full framers ?

Particularly if you're not enlarging past 8 X 10 or 11 X 14 ?

I've even noticed that bokeh...a feature more associated with a FF..using my 50 F 1.4 and 70 F 2.4 Limited is wonderful.

I know the FF sensor is more amenable to cropping than an ASP-C....and although I try to crop with my eye...using all the frame of my K-5....I still crop and generally cropping doesn't lessen quality all that much.

Now within a few weeks we have seen Nikon introduce the D 600 FF and Canon the 6D FF. Both cameras, although not cheap are certainly more reasonable then former FF's and I think FF prices will continue to come down.

Will Pentax eventually bring out a FF DSLR ?

Will that mean that within 5-10 years FF will be the norm and premium cropped frame DSLR's no longer exist ?

Will cropped frame lenses be obsolete ?

Currently I have three Pentax ASP-C DSLR's and a number of Pentax digital lenses. Will the digital lenses designed for ASP-C format become orphans ?

A lot of questions.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 10:50 PM   #2
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I don't see it as a disappointment at all, but can understand why some do. In the future FF cameras may very well be the norm, but not yet. I'm happy with what I have, but may get a K5II at some later date, maybe in a year or two. There are disadvantages to full frame, too, and so far they outweigh the advantages for me, personally. I'm interested in a couple of new lenses anyway.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 2:28 AM   #3
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Hi Les,

I'm with Harriet, and there's no disappointment here. My purposes are better served by a crop sensor, and with the K-5, I'm no longer jealous of the outrageous high ISO performance of the bigger sensors.

I used to be strongly against Pentax coming out with a FF body. I still don't think it makes good sense, but I think that Ricoh can allocate enough money to fund the project without taking away from the APS-C line fo DSLRS compare to Hoya or the original Pentax before it, so I'm not as worried about this as I had been before.

Everyone says that FF sensors will come down in price, but I don't think it will be anything like the economies of scale enjoyed by APS-C and 4/3. The smaller sensors are significantly less expensive to produce because there is a very significant differential in waste per chip disc and with the mirrorless cameras in the cropped formats, the demand for the smaller sensors was much greater to start with and the differential is growing, not shrinking.

Historically, there was no drop in price when Nikon went from the more expensive CCD sensors in their early models to the less expensive CMOS type in the D3 series bodies, just as there was no drop in price when Pentax went from a CCD in the K10 to a CMOS in the K20. Decreases in price in new FF models have come more from offering lower performance in the bodies than from using cheaper sensors, IMO. With less of an increase in IQ between APS-C and FF, I think the number of photographers switching is due as much to perceived status and performance gains in other areas to a higher grade body than to the advantages of the larger sensors -- I could be wrong. . .

Scott
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 6:54 AM   #4
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For printing at 8x10 or 11x14, there is no significant advantage to using FF. However, with the improvements of monitors and displays, I believe the acceptable standards of IQ will strengthen the need for better resolution and noise control for which the FF's have an advantage. Many here know that I shoot brand N now and am published on www.airliners.net whose photo screening standards are ridiculously high. In the last 6 months, I've had more images rejected for grain and noise for images taken in broad daylight at ISO 200. I am therefore considering an upgrade to FF since FF has set a new standard in IQ in my circles.

Absolutely nothing wrong with APS-C sensors, and I love the 1.5 crop factor! Depending on your usage condition, it will do a fantastic job. However, the trend seems to be towards larger sensors even in P&S cameras in order to achieve better IQ. You may have heard that just last week, both Nikon and Canon introduced new lower priced bodies with FF sensors. Without a FF body, Pentax will find its self in its traditional spot of being a laggard within the industry.

Jehan
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 7:00 AM   #5
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I'm a tad disappointed but it would never make me consider switching companies just for any FF camera. I do want a pentax FF though.

I think the first awe inspiring moment was when I saw a 1:1 crop of a fullframe nikon and It looked sharper than my images at 50% using very sharp prime lenses. It was a shot outside someone's doorstep and wasn't an immaculate image and didn't seem any higher IQ at first but the 1:1 showed very sharp detailed lettering on the cars across the street, wood grain from seemingly microscopic fences in the distance, faces on kids in the background, not just blurs of skin and hair.

I'm very happy with my Pentax and I do a lot of large (20x30) prints of my photos. THey come out pretty good but I would really like to stick like a 40X60 or something of the like over my couch. I just don't have confidence in being able to print that size without drastic reduction in quality.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 7:12 PM   #6
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The one serious professional photographer I know who went full frame does not think it was worth the money. Keep in mind, so I have been told, you need full frame lenses to take full advantage of the format, that she says is so incremental as to not be worth the thousands she spent. Pentax has far more important things they should working on like articulated screens and a true small mirrorless that competes. I have some very large, 30x23, beautiful framed prints from my Kx. It's plenty.

Last edited by pboerger; Sep 18, 2012 at 7:37 PM.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 7:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pboerger View Post
The one serious professional photographer I know who went full frame does not think it was worth the money. Keep in mind, so I have been told, you full frame lenses to take full advantage of the format. Pentax has far more important things they should do like articulated screens, a true small mirrorless that competes and perhaps a high level compact camera (the Q isn't it).
It really depends on the shooter of course. I would sacrifice an articulated screen any day for a 50% boost in resolution and wider viewing angle.
My lenses happen to all be made for full frame anyways so It wouldn't require any new gear when/if the time comes.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 7:42 PM   #8
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Now that I think about it, a 40x60 would be really cool.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 8:03 PM   #9
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Well, I'm still learning all the potential of the K20D, and no funds for another camera body anytime in the near future anyway. So no lack of FF disappointment here!
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 8:07 AM   #10
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From reading different forums, there seem to be a very small handful of very vocal people that really want to use a Pentax fullframe. The rest of the disappointment seems to come from people that own the brand and simply feel it is necessary for Pentax to either be competitive or for the endless "my brand is better than your brand" debates on all brands. I believe in many cases for people not shooting at high iso regularly the benefit appears greater than it is because we view photos on the computer at magnified levels. For the vast majority of photos that get printed I suspect the noticeable benefit is negligible. very similar to comparing aps-c photos to 4/3 photos. However, just like people convince themselves all their photos will be better with 18 instead of 12mp - so too here. Some will, but I suspect the majority will not.
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