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Old Nov 24, 2012, 5:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Frogfish View Post
I'm not so sure Scott. Since I bought the D800 (and put a Sigma 500 and Zeiss primes on it) I'm in heaven. The resolution (and cropping power) is astounding and for birding this makes a huge difference to the number of keepers and the distance at which I can shoot them.

I'd have thought the the K5 would be similar (being x1.5 crop sensor and with the DA*300 and also some Zeiss and Pentax Ltd primes) but it's nowhere near, even though I love my K5 and still use it (mostly for work but it's still the camera I carry around with me when I have nothing special planned).
Hi Kevin,

My statement about not seeing any advantage in more sensor resolution was made considering APS-C as the format, since Pentax is not likely to come out with a 36x24 format body any time soon. So for me, the choice was considering a K-5 IIs against against a future K-5 series body replacement, which will likely be a body with an APS-C Sony Exmor 24MP CMOS sensor -- I don't know this for a fact, but I'd say it's a good guess. . .In any case, I don't think the high ISO performance of the 24MP sensor is up to that of the current 16MP, and I'd rather not trade the higher res for the higher ISO, so the 16MP is the better sensor for me.

I don't doubt that the extra resolution on a 36x24 sensor is well worth it -- but my considerations are different -- My health situation (and age) limits me more each year in the amount of gear that I can carry -- My big lenses have had only very limited use this past season, and though this should improve, I can't say for how long -- past 60, your body sometimes refuses to cooperate, and if things go wrong, it takes a lot longer to recover, if it can recover at all. . .

Also, although I allow myself a very liberal photography budget, I don't see $6-8 K as justifiable at my age with my health outlook for gear that while easily superior, I may or may not be physically able to handle in the foreseeable future. I'm just an amateur, do this for fun and as a way to force myself to keep my brain and body active. I doubt that I'm capable of getting much better at what I do, and though superior gear could improve my results, it would be a matter of greatly diminishing returns for me at this point.

I do respect you and value your input, but we just have different goals at our respective points in life.

Scott

Last edited by snostorm; Nov 24, 2012 at 6:43 PM. Reason: added another thought that I'd meant to include
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 6:02 PM   #12
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Scott, please keep us up to date on how the K-5 IIs works out - I think more than a few of us are highly interested in the results you get and the answer to the moire question. And congratulations on your purchase. So you won't get it this week. No problem - you'll get it for Christmas.

Myself, I was eyeing the same deal. But I gave in to this week's K-01 body deal for $314. My K-5 was a year old in August and it works just fine. I'll probably use the K-01 with primes only for a lot of indoor use and maybe things like family picnics and barbecues.
Hi Biro,

Thanks.

I hope to be able to do some early tests at my local nature center and at the zoo indoors, and will post the results. I feel that the moire problem has been overemphasized, like many things in this age of too much information. In any case, even if I'm wrong about this, I have some theories about either avoiding or correcting moire that I haven't seen presented, so it can give me a chance to do some outside-the-box experiments.

Congrats on your purchase -- the K01, IMO has the best concept of the mirrorless alternatives -- lens versatility over body size as a priority. A more advanced model (optional EVF, articulating LCD) would have been a consideration for me, but it's not really well suited for what I shoot as it is.

Scott
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 9:53 PM   #13
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Thanks, Scott. I hope you prove correct. I'm still considering the IIs.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 2:05 PM   #14
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Hi Kevin,

My statement about not seeing any advantage in more sensor resolution was made considering APS-C as the format, since Pentax is not likely to come out with a 36x24 format body any time soon. So for me, the choice was considering a K-5 IIs against against a future K-5 series body replacement, which will likely be a body with an APS-C Sony Exmor 24MP CMOS sensor -- I don't know this for a fact, but I'd say it's a good guess. . .In any case, I don't think the high ISO performance of the 24MP sensor is up to that of the current 16MP, and I'd rather not trade the higher res for the higher ISO, so the 16MP is the better sensor for me.

I don't doubt that the extra resolution on a 36x24 sensor is well worth it -- but my considerations are different -- My health situation (and age) limits me more each year in the amount of gear that I can carry -- My big lenses have had only very limited use this past season, and though this should improve, I can't say for how long -- past 60, your body sometimes refuses to cooperate, and if things go wrong, it takes a lot longer to recover, if it can recover at all. . .

Also, although I allow myself a very liberal photography budget, I don't see $6-8 K as justifiable at my age with my health outlook for gear that while easily superior, I may or may not be physically able to handle in the foreseeable future. I'm just an amateur, do this for fun and as a way to force myself to keep my brain and body active. I doubt that I'm capable of getting much better at what I do, and though superior gear could improve my results, it would be a matter of greatly diminishing returns for me at this point.

I do respect you and value your input, but we just have different goals at our respective points in life.

Scott
All very valid reasons - as my knee joints tell me after every full day's activity (whether walking, climbing or birding) ! I wear a back support every time I go out for a full day now and it's made the world of difference - no more back pain after a day in the field !

I wasn't advocating buying the D800 etc. I was just pointing out the value of the extra MP, which may appear sooner rather than later in a new Pentax body - though of course the quality of those extra MP are important too of course.

Hope your recovery continues unabated !
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 2:13 PM   #15
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Hi Kevin,



I don't doubt that the extra resolution on a 36x24 sensor is well worth it -- but my considerations are different -- My health situation (and age) limits me more each year in the amount of gear that I can carry -- My big lenses have had only very limited use this past season, and though this should improve, I can't say for how long -- past 60, your body sometimes refuses to cooperate, and if things go wrong, it takes a lot longer to recover, if it can recover at all. . .

Also, although I allow myself a very liberal photography budget, I don't see $6-8 K as justifiable at my age with my health outlook for gear that while easily superior, I may or may not be physically able to handle in the foreseeable future. I'm just an amateur, do this for fun and as a way to force myself to keep my brain and body active. I doubt that I'm capable of getting much better at what I do, and though superior gear could improve my results, it would be a matter of greatly diminishing returns for me at this point.

I do respect you and value your input, but we just have different goals at our respective points in life.

Scott
Scott,

I read your post with interest. For the past year or so I've been thinking along the same lines.

I've been an ardent photographer since the late '60's and in my younger days went from 35mm SLR to rangefinder 35mm...then eventually a medium format system. I switched around...always looking for something 'better'.

In 2007 I got into digital slr photography....K10D...then K-m and last year K-5 .

I've acquired a fair amount of Pentax digital lenses since '07 and really enjoy my Pentax digital system.

I've thought about changing systems...going full frame Canon or Nikon for the past couple of years...but when I've thought about it, I've come to the realization that with digital equipment...I'll never be able to keep up with the latest, greatest thing.

Technology moves along with alarming alacrity and at my age...rapidly moving into the mid 60's....I also have come to the conclusion that at this stage of my life, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sink, not invest...somewhere north of 7 grand CAD into a FF Canikon system...which as with all things technological will be possibly rendered obsolete within 3-5 years.

As it is....when I look at some of the photos my equipment produces...I wonder how it could get any better...in terms of clarity, colour rendition, etc. I blow up photo's to 8 X 10, some 11 X 14...I realize that at poster size..I might see the difference between ASP-C and FF sensor....but I've yet to do a poster size photo in my long photographic life.

I do understand your position...I'm in essentially the same boat.

Les

Last edited by lesmore49; Nov 25, 2012 at 2:15 PM.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 8:16 PM   #16
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Congrats on the new camera! I'm another who will be very interested in how the IIs does for you.

I had more or less come to similar conclusions as you did about cameras. A friend of mine bought a D800 first, and while I thought I might be able to manage it, it was still heavier than I would want. He them sold it for a D600 and let me try that. I was really impressed with it, it's not all that much different than the K5 weight-wise and I thought the ergonomics very nice. It's the first full frame camera that might interest me, but not enough to get me to change. But, like Scott, I don't think the quality gains are enough for me to switch. Since I'm really happy with what I have, I'll just wait for a year (or two) and consider a Pentax full frame if/when it comes out.

For now I'll enjoy your photos and continue to think about the IIs.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 8:35 PM   #17
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I have the d800 and the K5iis. While I love the IQ of the D800 I consider it a studio camera. I've tried hiking with it and traveling with it and it is just plain heavy. It's not just the camera but the lens are very heavy also. I have been more than pleased with the K5iis and the lens combo. The weight and the IQ are just what I need. Not sure if I will sell the Nikon just yet but I can already tell that when I go out the door I now have the Pentax with me.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 11:24 PM   #18
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Hi All,

I had definitely made up my mind to wait at least a few months to order a K-5 IIs. Th added low light AF sensitivity is the most attractive new feature for me since I commonly use slow combinations of long telephotos and TCs. the K-5 works fine, but SAFOX X could make a difference. . . just rationalizing. . .

Anyway, with B&H's Black Friday deal of $250 off ($1049), I just couldn't pass. I'll probably be proved wrong, but I think it's unlikely it will be available for this price for quite a while. . . more rationalization. . .

I saw the very late last night when it posted, and put the K-5 IIs, Extended Warranty, and WR IR remote in the basket, but waited until I could talk to my local B&M dealer to see if he'd be willing to at least come close to the deal. He wasn't, so I returned to B&H to check out, but their stock had sold out, so I'll have to wait a bit. . . no big deal since I had previously decided to hold off for a few months. . . but it kinda puts a damper on (almost) immediate gratification and the feeling of anticipation. . .

Anyway, when I get it, I can send in my K-5 for the complimentary cleaning and check up I get with the extended warranty that I had gotten for it. . . even more rationalization . . . -- and I'll have all winter to experiment and play with the new body before I really "need" it.

Scott

Grats on the new cam! Cant wait to see some bird photos. Better not be too good or my significant other might get upset at me.

:-)
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 1:12 AM   #19
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I have the d800 and the K5iis. While I love the IQ of the D800 I consider it a studio camera. I've tried hiking with it and traveling with it and it is just plain heavy. It's not just the camera but the lens are very heavy also. I have been more than pleased with the K5iis and the lens combo. The weight and the IQ are just what I need. Not sure if I will sell the Nikon just yet but I can already tell that when I go out the door I now have the Pentax with me.
Actually there is not a huge difference (well for me anyway).

Consider : -

D800 (900g) : Zeiss 21 (720g), Zeiss 35 (530g), Nikon 85/1.8 (350g), I also on rare occasions use the 80-200 (1,275g) but not much as I prefer primes.

I don't use but for FYI : Nikon 24-70 (900g - people & general) & 17-35 (my WA zoom of choice, 745g).

K5iis (740g) : 15 Ltd (212g), 31 Ltd (345g), 16-50 (565g) and 50-135 (685g)

The Zeiss are all metal MF lenses, Nikon's plastic primes are lighter. The Sigma 500mm I use for birding is the same weight on all mounts.

I think the physical difference can be a little intimidating at first (though, having biggish hands, not so much of a difference at all) but weight-wise there is not much in it at all though that would depend on your preference and use. For me it goes (would go) like this :

Birds : Nikon 160g heavier than Pentax.

Landscapes : D800+Zeiss 21 or 35 (1,620 or 1,430g) or K5iis + 15 Ltd or 16-50 (952g or 1,305g). Personally I rarely use the 15 Ltd or 21 Zeiss for landscapes as I use a Zeiss 28mm (280g) on the K5 (total 1,020g) and Zeiss 35 on the D800 (total 1,430g), but some people prefer wider lenses.

Street : On a K5 I use the 77 (269g) and the 155g 43 (for a total weight of 1,164g) and on the D800 I don't have a direct equivalent yet but the 35 and 85 are nearest to what I'll actually use (total 1,780g).

Hiking : (I take the primes but someone else may prefer the Nikon 24-120 (670g) or consumer lens 18-105 (420g) and say the Pentax 18-135 (429g).

For events / portraits etc. it's irrelevant since you are in one location and can usually put them down whenever you want or are working on a tripod.

It's always an interesting comparison but there isn't much in it, in most cases around 400g -- 600g (14 - 21 oz) and often if out all day that weight can easily be made up by leaving something else out of the bag.
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Nikon : D800, D600, Sigma 500/4.5, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 - 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 - 35/2.0, Nikkor 85/1.8G, Sigma 50/1.4. Nikon x1.4 TC, Sigma x2.0 TC

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Old Nov 26, 2012, 7:34 PM   #20
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Kevin & Scott - some very interesting discussions - thanks for letting us "listen in" on the conversation!

Scott - congratulations on the camera - will look forward to seeing more of your great photos with the new tool!
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