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Old Apr 9, 2005, 8:16 AM   #21
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I haven't followed this forum very closely, but for some reason, people are comparing the Rebel XT to the *ist DS? Is it because of price? I've studyied the pentax and simply put, would rather shoot the pentax than the canon based on the fact that canons camera user interface is cheesy...personally i would like to stand corrected because I haven't used an XT yet, but from what i've seen...its the same crappy 300D in a lighter, smaller body (can anyone say durability issues?) with an 8mp sensor. I hated the 300D because it lacked too many in camera settings. I really wished it had a metering option. Plus that lens it comes with is terrible. The Pentax is a steal for what it offers. I agree whole-heartedly with those images. An 8mp XP image in raw format is damn near the same as the *ist DS 6mp raw. The body feels about same sadly. If you guys are comparing the camera for the best deal, jeez, take the pentax while they keep making decent digital bodies at that price. Eventually they'll start making crappy canon-esque cameras marketed at consumers who think they're photographers. I see it every day...My job is to sell them, and to know the specs and selling points of every camera. Yea,i havent used an XT yet but with canon, you can pretty much predict what its gonna be like. Pentax isnt a newbie camera either. What exactly else do you need it to have? buyasinc adaptor for you hotshoe. Other than that, the camera is perfect for seasoned photographers alike. As I started this, These cameras shouldn't be compared. The pentax is in its own class, and delivers performance i've never seen so cheeply offered. Canon is sorta like the band U2...they design what they think will make the quick bucks (a.k.a. pop music) with the same format over and over, while the underdogs are where its at. Sorry if i sound pro-pentax...im just tired of the canon movement, and wish it to end soon.
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Old Apr 9, 2005, 1:36 PM   #22
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the_answer wrote:
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I haven't followed this forum very closely, but for some reason, people are comparing the Rebel XT to the *ist DS?

..im just tired of the canon movement, and wish it to end soon.
I guess that invariably, when you post images from both cameras, it looks like a comparison - probably because it is but it wasn't necessarily meant to be so.

Having decided on the *istDS, I was, am & will remain a contented user; it does all and more than I want & I really don't need convincing that I made the right choice.

However, I'm always interested in reading reviews not because I want to read glowing reports but they do add a degree of knowledge to the camera and I'm always interested to understand any genuine shortcomings that they might possess.

BUT I think that a reviewer should be consistent in the way that a review is presented. In that respect I believe that DPR have not been fair to the *istDS and introduced a level of JPEG comparison which no other dSRL has been subjected to (I stand to be corrected but to date I've have notfound none at DPR).

In DPRs summary they quote the JPEG as of near equal quality to RAW and as 'silky smooth'.

In posting these shots I merely wanted to show that the Rebel XT is NOT the panacea to dSRL photography that DPR reports; its no better,even possiblyworse that than the *istDS.
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Old Apr 10, 2005, 8:34 PM   #23
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Where on the dpreview site are the watch photos? I would like to look at the originals and can't seem to find them.

Tom
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Old Apr 10, 2005, 11:06 PM   #24
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DP seems to do a decent job with objective analysis. Phil went out of his way to show the surprisingly soft results (jpg) could be vastly improved. It's not the reviewers fault -- the XT images are clearly sharper in jpg - phil was doing PENTAX a favor. Jpgs and Raws are routinely reviewed, this one showed an excessive variation.

Rather than gripe at DPreview, as a prospective buyer I suggest that Pentax needs to keep up with the competition. 8mp *ist D2 - I'll be in line. I don't like the heavy zoom offerings of Canon and prefer the Pentax primes and viewfinder.




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Old Apr 11, 2005, 12:56 AM   #25
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ennacac wrote:
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Where on the dpreview site are the watch photos? I would like to look at the originals and can't seem to find them.
You'll find them here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistds/page14.asp


JPEG: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Pent...y/IMGP0101.jpg
RAW-LAB: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Pent...lab-bright.jpg
RAW-ADOBE: no link to download
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Old Apr 11, 2005, 1:04 AM   #26
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kevin2i wrote:
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DP seems to do a decent job with objective analysis. Phil went out of his way to show the surprisingly soft results (jpg) could be vastly improved. It's not the reviewers fault -- the XT images are clearly sharper in jpg - phil was doing PENTAX a favor. Jpgs and Raws are routinely reviewed, this one showed an excessive variation.

Rather than gripe at DPreview, as a prospective buyer I suggest that Pentax needs to keep up with the competition. 8mp *ist D2 - I'll be in line. I don't like the heavy zoom offerings of Canon and prefer the Pentax primes and viewfinder.
Sorry kevin2ibut you miss the point.

No other review by DPR appears to have analysed JPEg quality as painstakingly thorough as the review for the *istDS - I would like to see the full size images of Tower Bridge done for ALL including the Rebel XT; that way ALL reviews cover the same material and allow a more unbiased assessment.

No one will dispute that JPEG is inferior to processed RAW.

On the subject of image quality - either look again at the comparison that I posted earlier or download the originals and you'll agree that there is not much to choose between either of them - as I previously remarked, and yes I'm biased - but I think that the *istDS appear sharper than the XT;I certainly can't agree that there is excessive variation.
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Old Apr 11, 2005, 9:21 AM   #27
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On the silver watch face it is easy to see that the XT blows out the highlights on the left side of the face, while the DS does not.

Since Phil was being so hard on the DS with the soft jpg images, where was the in depth review of the blown out highlights of the Rebel?

Tom
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Old Apr 11, 2005, 4:02 PM   #28
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I appreciate your forum participationguys but posting any portion of Phil's review or sampleimages hereis a clearcopyright infringement - please refrain from doing it further. Thanks!
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Old Apr 13, 2005, 1:06 PM   #29
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Oops. It wasn't my intention to breach any copyright only to enable users to make a direct comparison.

The Rebel XT review also used more RAW converters on their comparison - not that it made too much of a difference but they do affect the quality of the final image.

For those that wish to view the images for comparison they are located here:

Canon RebelXT
RAW: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Cano...G_0137-cs2.jpg
JPEG:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Cano...W/IMG_0120.jpg

Pentax *istDS
RAW:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Pent...ab-natural.jpg
JPEG:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Pent...y/IMGP0101.jpg
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Old Apr 14, 2005, 4:49 AM   #30
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Hi all,

I'm a very happy user of the DS, in fact my two quibbles would be the flash focussing aid doesn't come on early enough (and cannot be selected manually) and the lack of continuous focussing except on 'sport' - a mindblowingly stupid bit of softwear 'slugging' to protect the 'D' (which the Ds makes obsolete).

Moving on... The DP review was interesting. To be fair to the author I think he concentrated on the RAW/.JPG difference because it was so much greater than with the other cameras. But there's odd things about the review that make me think something's not quite right. The DS is generally described as having very natural, even subdued colours, Steve found them less saturated than the D70. DP found the opposite that they were very over saturated. The only way to square this is that DP used the DS with the 'image tone' set at high (which stupidly is the default). I suspect this effects not just saturation, but also sharpening and contrast to make 'wow' type pictures. It'll also require more processing and thus poorer .jpgs. Is this what happened - it would seem to explain the odd results? If DP set the 'image tone' to natural, but then used any of the programmed modes or 'auto-pic' then the camera defaults to various settings (ignoring any custom settings) including returning to high 'image tone'. Is this the explaination for over saturated colour, poor .jpgs etc? Did DP think they were shooting in 'natural' and not realise the camera had overidden their settings when they used one of the picture modes? Or did the camera have a faultand defaulted anyway?

It's a possible solution for a number of anomalies between reviews, not least that Pentax claimed that .jpgs from the DS were better than the 'D' and DP found the opposite?

Any other ideas?

Just paid $45 for a 70-200mm FA pentax which works brilliantly and focusses even quicker than the kit lens - try that with a Canon!

Cheers

Geoff
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