Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Pentax / Samsung dSLR, K Mount Mirrorless

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Aug 1, 2006, 9:46 PM   #61
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

sarah, funny you posted this as i just remodeled a suppliment bottle for use as a difusser for the sigma 500....LOL

roy
  Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 5:47 AM   #62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 568
Default

I made a diffuser for my sunpak 383 using milk bottle, but I used two layers of it. It reduced flash output about 1.5 stops but I really could see the diffrence. I jus did few test shots indoors. with DIY diffuser the walls of my room had more natural colors than without, no reflections from paint on the wall and no vignetting at all, while without diffuser each corner of my photo was much darker than centre of the frame. If you want to see photos I can post them.

I also found out that the best way to use non TTL flash (like my sunpak) is to do it in manual mode. the chart on the back of flash is pretty accurate so I was using this as a guide. Just have to decide how far the subject is fromcamera (more or less) and set apreture and strenght for this distance. In dark room it worked pretty well. shutter speed didn't really matter, you just can't use longer shutter when there's a lot of ambient light (I tried to shot water droplets with longer shutter speed and the pictures were washed out). That's the best way to use this kind of flash for me.
gfurm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 6:09 AM   #63
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 568
Default

1 without diffuser



2 with diffuser





As you can see the difference in color is considerable. Colors in second photo are real colors of my walls while on 1st they are washed out. You can't see vignetting because it only occurs in darkend room and these were taken in bright room. I didn't try to shot close ups but on these two I can see difference. both shot at f5.6 1/125s
gfurm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 6:44 AM   #64
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4
Default

mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
Well, let's begin The Flash Thread-

Lesson 1

As the title and sub titlesay, we will will be doing this in small easy to understand posts. I have a DS on hand to work with now, and should have a DL and a K100Dto work within thenext week to two weeks. In that way, we will be able to cover all of the current Pentax DSLR cameras on the market today.

While we will focus this thread on Pentax DSLR cameras only, you can logically see that a lot of the information will be be discussing will be transferable in some ways to other cameras and flash units. I plan to move slowly and want to encourage as many questions as you might desire to ask on the Pentax DSLR/Flash topic. So please keep your questions on topic. There are plenty of other threads on the Pentax forum/folder to ask non-flash questions. Or you can begin a total new thread to seek an answer to your question if it does not concern Pentax Flashes

The DSbuilt-in flash is our logical starting point, because the new buyer will soon after his or her camera purchase face the need to use the camera's built-in flash. For the record, the built-in flash on the DS, DL, and the K100D works just about the same.

For those who use the "Auto Pict"selection on the theMode Selector, or those who use the "P", TV", or "AV" selection on the Mode Selector but never change to ISO from the minimum setting of ISO 200, you must keep this important fact in mind.

The Flash Range, which is defined as the distance from the camera's flash to your subject, measured in feet will be limited to certain fixed distances.The camera's built-in flash will over expose (creating a very washed out, white-ish looking looking image) when used at a distance of .7 meters, or about 2 feet or less. The camera's built-in flash will alsounder expose (creating a dark, blackish looking photo, where your subject can not be clearly seen due to heavy shadowing and darkening in the photo) when the flash to subject distance exceeds 12 feet.

Note also that there is also anotherissue to contend with when using the camera's built-in flash. That is lens compatibility. Naturally, the camera will work, as advertised, with the two so called "kit" lenses, the 18-55mm lens and the 50-200mm lens. However, if you are using an older lens you will want to check the lens compatibility chart located on page 151 of the DS manual (if you have a DL or the K100D camera, the compatibility list may be on a different page in your camera's manual), as the lens you are usingmight not function in the way you are expecting. So please sure to check if you are using an older lens. Generally speaking, when you are using non A lenses, the built-in flash will fire at full power. That might cause over exposure.

The final issue we must deal with before beginning to use the camera's built-in flash is that it is recommended that any lens hood be removed. The is done to achieve an even light distribution throughout your photo.

Is you have selected "Auto Pict" on the Mode Selector Dial, the camera's built-in flash will automatically pop up when needed for a photo. However, you must be careful not to be fooled by the flash. In the "Auto Pict" mode you have no choice, the flash is going to fire not once but TWICE. Yes, that is correct. The flash fires the first time for red eye reduction, and then second time to take the photo. Therefore if you seethe firstflash in the viewfinder,and lower the camera, you will take a picture of your foot when the camera's built-in flash fires the SECOND flash that takes the actual photo.

If you have selected P on the Mode Selector Dial, you will have FIVE different flash options. The word AUTO with the lighting bolt (meaning flash) through it, will give you straight automatic flash. The camera's built in flash will fire onlyONCE, not TWICE. The camera (when you push the Shutter release) will measure the surrounding or ambient light in your photo scene, the built-in flash will automatically pop up, and the camera will discharge only the amount of light needed for your photo situation.If the flash is already raised or deployed, the camera will not fire the camera's built-in flash when the camera's light measurement indicated thatthe built-in flash wasnot needed due there being sufficient light in your proposed photo scene.

But you must understand that the auto flash can be fooled. If there is backlighting (light that hits the side or back of your subject's head, leaving their face shadowed and not clearly visible) there will be sufficient light so that the camera's light measurement will signal the built-in flash, and it will NOT fire. The result is that the camera has computed everything based the harsh side or backlighting and your subject's faces will be heavily shadowed or just not visible at all. So it is up to you to identify your photo's lighting when using auto flash. Therefore, I will say this: You have been warned.

The next flash mode that your flash is capable of is indicated by just a single lighting bolt alone, or all by itself (remember that the lighting bolt is a symbol for flash). This mode has three or more names. Some call it the "Flash On" position. The camera manual calls it the "Manual Discharge Mode" positio. And finally a lot of folks, refer to this mode as "Fill Flash." No matter what the name, they are all the same thing.

The camera's manual nomenclature is probably the best description. When your camera's built-in flash is in the Manual Discharge Mode, it will not pop up automatically, and if the camera's built-in flash is not manually poped up, or if it is subsequently retracted, the flash will not fire in the Manual Discharge Mode.

The last three built-in flash modes available only in the P, Tv, and Av modes are easily understood. The first simply addsa preliminary red eye reduction flash to the auto flash. The second simply adds the preliminary red eye reduction flash to the manual discharge mode. The third is the Flash off mode. This is indicated by the flash symbol (the lightening bolt) with a diaoginal line through the lightening bolt.

So keep in mind one other little built-in glitch. If you manually deploy the flash rather than letting the flash pop up by itself in the"Auto Pict",P, TV, or Av Modes, the flash will fire at full power with out and reduction created through measuring the ambient light in your proposed photo.

So there is your first installment. Let me know if it is clear enough, and whatever questions that you have about just the camera's built-in flash, as we add more lessons, the possible questions will naturally also increase.

MT/Sarah
viccils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 6:45 AM   #65
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4
Default

mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
Well, let's begin The Flash Thread-

Lesson 1

As the title and sub titlesay, we will will be doing this in small easy to understand posts. I have a DS on hand to work with now, and should have a DL and a K100Dto work within thenext week to two weeks. In that way, we will be able to cover all of the current Pentax DSLR cameras on the market today.

While we will focus this thread on Pentax DSLR cameras only, you can logically see that a lot of the information will be be discussing will be transferable in some ways to other cameras and flash units. I plan to move slowly and want to encourage as many questions as you might desire to ask on the Pentax DSLR/Flash topic. So please keep your questions on topic. There are plenty of other threads on the Pentax forum/folder to ask non-flash questions. Or you can begin a total new thread to seek an answer to your question if it does not concern Pentax Flashes

The DSbuilt-in flash is our logical starting point, because the new buyer will soon after his or her camera purchase face the need to use the camera's built-in flash. For the record, the built-in flash on the DS, DL, and the K100D works just about the same.

For those who use the "Auto Pict"selection on the theMode Selector, or those who use the "P", TV", or "AV" selection on the Mode Selector but never change to ISO from the minimum setting of ISO 200, you must keep this important fact in mind.

The Flash Range, which is defined as the distance from the camera's flash to your subject, measured in feet will be limited to certain fixed distances.The camera's built-in flash will over expose (creating a very washed out, white-ish looking looking image) when used at a distance of .7 meters, or about 2 feet or less. The camera's built-in flash will alsounder expose (creating a dark, blackish looking photo, where your subject can not be clearly seen due to heavy shadowing and darkening in the photo) when the flash to subject distance exceeds 12 feet.

Note also that there is also anotherissue to contend with when using the camera's built-in flash. That is lens compatibility. Naturally, the camera will work, as advertised, with the two so called "kit" lenses, the 18-55mm lens and the 50-200mm lens. However, if you are using an older lens you will want to check the lens compatibility chart located on page 151 of the DS manual (if you have a DL or the K100D camera, the compatibility list may be on a different page in your camera's manual), as the lens you are usingmight not function in the way you are expecting. So please sure to check if you are using an older lens. Generally speaking, when you are using non A lenses, the built-in flash will fire at full power. That might cause over exposure.

The final issue we must deal with before beginning to use the camera's built-in flash is that it is recommended that any lens hood be removed. The is done to achieve an even light distribution throughout your photo.

Is you have selected "Auto Pict" on the Mode Selector Dial, the camera's built-in flash will automatically pop up when needed for a photo. However, you must be careful not to be fooled by the flash. In the "Auto Pict" mode you have no choice, the flash is going to fire not once but TWICE. Yes, that is correct. The flash fires the first time for red eye reduction, and then second time to take the photo. Therefore if you seethe firstflash in the viewfinder,and lower the camera, you will take a picture of your foot when the camera's built-in flash fires the SECOND flash that takes the actual photo.

If you have selected P on the Mode Selector Dial, you will have FIVE different flash options. The word AUTO with the lighting bolt (meaning flash) through it, will give you straight automatic flash. The camera's built in flash will fire onlyONCE, not TWICE. The camera (when you push the Shutter release) will measure the surrounding or ambient light in your photo scene, the built-in flash will automatically pop up, and the camera will discharge only the amount of light needed for your photo situation.If the flash is already raised or deployed, the camera will not fire the camera's built-in flash when the camera's light measurement indicated thatthe built-in flash wasnot needed due there being sufficient light in your proposed photo scene.

But you must understand that the auto flash can be fooled. If there is backlighting (light that hits the side or back of your subject's head, leaving their face shadowed and not clearly visible) there will be sufficient light so that the camera's light measurement will signal the built-in flash, and it will NOT fire. The result is that the camera has computed everything based the harsh side or backlighting and your subject's faces will be heavily shadowed or just not visible at all. So it is up to you to identify your photo's lighting when using auto flash. Therefore, I will say this: You have been warned.

The next flash mode that your flash is capable of is indicated by just a single lighting bolt alone, or all by itself (remember that the lighting bolt is a symbol for flash). This mode has three or more names. Some call it the "Flash On" position. The camera manual calls it the "Manual Discharge Mode" positio. And finally a lot of folks, refer to this mode as "Fill Flash." No matter what the name, they are all the same thing.

The camera's manual nomenclature is probably the best description. When your camera's built-in flash is in the Manual Discharge Mode, it will not pop up automatically, and if the camera's built-in flash is not manually poped up, or if it is subsequently retracted, the flash will not fire in the Manual Discharge Mode.

The last three built-in flash modes available only in the P, Tv, and Av modes are easily understood. The first simply addsa preliminary red eye reduction flash to the auto flash. The second simply adds the preliminary red eye reduction flash to the manual discharge mode. The third is the Flash off mode. This is indicated by the flash symbol (the lightening bolt) with a diaoginal line through the lightening bolt.

So keep in mind one other little built-in glitch. If you manually deploy the flash rather than letting the flash pop up by itself in the"Auto Pict",P, TV, or Av Modes, the flash will fire at full power with out and reduction created through measuring the ambient light in your proposed photo.

So there is your first installment. Let me know if it is clear enough, and whatever questions that you have about just the camera's built-in flash, as we add more lessons, the possible questions will naturally also increase.

MT/Sarah
viccils is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 7:25 AM   #66
Senior Member
 
nlp239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 719
Default

robar wrote:
Quote:
jc, i d/l the D manual and can't find a setting for itbut i know i've seen a thread somewhere that discussed the topic.. flip your flash up and see if when you use the wheel next to the ae-l button if it will go into flash mode for over/under exp. try pushing the button also when scrolling the button..
With lens cap off and caamera switched on I get these reading on Auto:

Tv 1"; Av 5.6; Flash indicator on and off

Flip-up the flash and I get:

Tv 45; Av 5.6; Flash indicator on

Wheel doesn't change anything

Does anyone out there have an istD????
nlp239 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 7:29 AM   #67
Senior Member
 
nlp239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 719
Default

Daren that covers what I was looking for -thanks. Now, if anyone can point me to a place where I can understand these meters, especially the non-digital type, I would be grateful.
nlp239 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 9:35 AM   #68
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

Roy-

I had the feeling that probably somebody had tried the difusser idea before, so I thought it would be a good experiment.Can you tellus how effective you think the DIY difusser that you made is with your Sigma EF 500 Super Flash? That means can we see a photo of the the difusser and some comparison photos such as gfrum provided. Thanks for the help, Roy!

gfrum-

Can you provide a photo of your DIY difusser. You mentionedyou usedtwo thicknesses of the plastic. Tell us and show us how you set it up. Thanks a lot!

Comments about the DIY Difusser

Please take a look at Lesson 3 and see if you can detect any differences made by our DIY difusser, and let us know your assesments, please!

Comingto Your Computer Soon...

I have some things that I have to take care of first today. Hopefully, by this afternoon I can begin on Lesson 4. We will next move into using Slave Flashes. This is another way of extending your built-in flash range from about 10 to 12 feet out to about 40 feet in camera to subject distance. Keep inmind that a Slave Flash can also provide a bounce flash advantage as well.

MT/Sarah
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 11:51 AM   #69
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 568
Default

about my diffuser, here are two photos





here's how I made it.Take two square pieces of white plastic cut out from milk bottle. join them temporary with duck tape and using lighter (or candle) carefully melt one edge and squeeze both pieces together (I put it on table and put a plastic ruler on top) to join them together (joined edges are marked with red on next photo). then bend both pieces to fit your external flash head and join second edge. If you join both edges before bending them it won't look that good and they may split. Now you should have C shaped piece of plastic. put beetwen both sheets a strip of plastic and join them together using hot tip of knife (marked with red X on the picture). Easiest way to do it is to fit both pieces before joinig them so they look square. This is my second attempt, first was really terrible (it worked ok but looked like s..). This makes about 1 stop difference in flash output. you can even put a piece of coloured transparent foil between both sheets to create different color effects.





As for your pictures I can't really see much difference except reflections on basket handle. I know it makes a difference shooting portraits, it reduces reflections from skin.
gfurm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 2006, 2:23 PM   #70
Senior Member
 
mtclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 18,143
Default

gfurm-

Please excuse me for not spelling you handle correctly before this. I apologize. Thank you very much for detailing how you created your DIY difusser. That helps a great deal to see the multiple photos.

MT/Sarah
mtclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:20 AM.