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Old Aug 13, 2006, 11:03 AM   #11
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I think all the Pentax dSLRs are great and value for your money. I was innitially very interested in the Samsung GX-1S, but that camera forces you to purchase it with the kit lens (I might have otherlenses in mind); then I considered the IST DS2 model (Body option) and was scared off by the JPEG matters (Which appearantly isn't a problem according to you all).

One VERY big reason I choose the K100D is because of the JPEG issues alone (I was hoping it was solved)...or else I could haveeasily gone with the IST DS2. Now that it isn't a problem as you all now say, then I might consider back the IST DS2 or the GX-1S since they all also don't have LCD backlights and have exackly the same features save the anti-shake on the K100D. I like the big & brightPentaprism TTL viewfinder on the DS2 and GX-1S models.

I hope the IST DS2 and the Samsung GX-1S all have mirror lock up (long exposure VR reduction), DOF preview button, B&W mode, and fully usable ISO 200 to ISO 1600. (Features as in the positiveK100D).



Maybe I might gowith the K100D for the improved JPEGs. I shoot in JPEGs most of the time.

TDN, I cannot view yourshots.





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Old Aug 13, 2006, 2:53 PM   #12
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I guess the point we are all trying to make is that other cameras like Canon overprocess their jpg images in camera from which there is no going back to a softer image. Pentax does less image sharpening in camera, so you can make them as sharp as you want in post processing.

That said there is nothing wrong with the jpg images straight out of the camera.

unprocessed jpg shot with my DS ISO 400



Same jpg image cropped and sharpened slightly!



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Old Aug 13, 2006, 9:54 PM   #13
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I want to ask for clarification regarding jpg softness/sharpness. Since it was said that the ist jpegs were less processed (i.e., less pre-sharpened and naturally fuzzier) than the competition (Rebel XT, etc.), then why (based on the dpreview comparison) are ist raw images - which are completely unprocessed - sharper than ist jpegs?

Put another way, does less processed = sharper image or fuzzier image? My impression is that there is a real qualitative difference between an image that is naturally sharp and one that has been sharpened by some algorithmic method (i.e., in camera processing, Photoshop, etc.) In the case of the ist, having an image come out fuzzy (jpeg processed) vs. sharp (raw unprocessed) leaves the user at a disadvantage if they attempt to sharpen their jpeg, whereas making an image fuzzier is always easily accomplished by software.

In any case, from my experience it seems that camera shake, subject movement, lense quality, etc. play more dominating roles in image sharpness than jpeg compression. Any lack of sharpness in the ist jpegs takes a fairly well controlled situation to make the distinction - and to do this, you have to zoom in quite a bit in photoshop before you're on a scale where the distinction can be made. Although I think the pictures in the dpreview comparison don't lie, I think they were overly harsh in their assessment of the issue. I've been very satisfied with the jpeg performance of my DS.


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Old Aug 13, 2006, 10:11 PM   #14
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Benjamin, about black and white, I may have missed this because I just skimmed the postings but did anyone mention that the Pentax will convert to black and white in camera after the shot, therefore you have the original colour jpeg plus the black and white conversion both saved to your memory card. I happen to like the black and whites produced by my DL and will often choose them over the conversions I do in software. BTW I am glad to see that you have warmed up to Pentax equipment, your earlier posts in the other forum seemed rather negative. Pentax does not currently produce a pro level DSLR body, but it does offer lenses as good as those from any manufacturer, and the SR system means you do not need super expensive VR or IS lenses. I will go out on a limb here and state my opinion, that the K100D represents the best bargain in a DSLR at this time.

pwithem, the RAW files are sharper only because the conversion software makes them that way. If you deliberately reduce the sharpness settings in the RAW conversion software you will get softer images. Being a RAW format you make the choice of how they should look by the settings you choose. The jpeg images were decided upon based on a few camera presets, therefore they cannot be fine tuned to the extent RAW files can.

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Old Aug 14, 2006, 4:27 AM   #15
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pwithem wrote:
Quote:
I want to ask for clarification regarding jpg softness/sharpness. Since it was said that the ist jpegs were less processed (i.e., less pre-sharpened and naturally fuzzier) than the competition (Rebel XT, etc.), then why (based on the dpreview comparison) are ist raw images - which are completely unprocessed - sharper than ist jpegs?
RAW images cannot be viewed without being converted - RAW contains the data that is necessary to reconstitute the stored information into a colour image. In the conversion process, depending on which type of image processor you use, it will include an element of sharpness by default. The user can manipulate the image changing things at will i.e. making things sharper or less sharper.

For example, if Pentax Photolab v2 is used (recent Pentax cameras are not supported), then a sharper image is produced from the RAW than with either PPL v2-1 or PPL v3.

In the example below, it shows that the PPLv2 RAW conversion is sharper than the JPEG.

Attached Images
 
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Old Aug 14, 2006, 5:06 AM   #16
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Either way, for your everyday shots the JPEG results from Pentax are more than sufficient.

Like I said before, on a reasonable viewing size, you won't distinguish camera make out of a picture.

All those reviews you're reading are based on marginal differences anyway...they have to compare somewhere...

Once you go to huge magnification, for example poster size, you might see the difference in sharpness, but for important shots like that it's better to shoot in RAW anyway. (gives you more editing space)

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TDN, I cannot view your shots.
The server was probably down while you were viewing, try again now...sorry 'bout that, I use a free hosting service, addyour.net...
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Old Aug 14, 2006, 5:45 AM   #17
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Code:
Benjamin, about black and white, I may have missed this because I just skimmed the postings but did anyone mention that the Pentax will convert to black and white in camera after the shot, therefore you have the original colour jpeg plus the black and white conversion both saved to your memory card. I happen to like the black and whites produced by my DL and will often choose them over the conversions I do in software. BTW I am glad to see that you have warmed up to Pentax equipment, your earlier posts in the other forum seemed rather negative. Pentax does not currently produce a pro level DSLR body, but it does offer lenses as good as those from any manufacturer, and the SR system means you do not need super expensive VR or IS lenses. I will go out on a limb here and state my opinion, that the K100D represents the best bargain in a DSLR at this time.

pwithem, the RAW files are sharper only because the conversion software makes them that way. If you deliberately reduce the sharpness settings in the RAW conversion software you will get softer images. Being a RAW format you make the choice of how they should look by the settings you choose. The jpeg images were decided upon based on a few camera presets, therefore they cannot be fine tuned to the extent RAW files can.

Ira
Thanks a lot for the useful informations.

I found that the K100D does have B&W mode though no filters. (NVM), I can let photoshop handle that.

I do like Pentax lenses a lot expecially the 50 mm F/1.4 and the pancake ones. :love:

I agree that this Pentax dSLR is very complete IMO. 8)

BTW, did Pentax overstate their ISO as Canon and Sony did? E.G. ISO 1600 = actualISO 2000.And is the ISO performance of the K100D similer to previous Pentax dSLRs? Thanks in advance.


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Old Aug 14, 2006, 4:55 PM   #18
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I have no idea if Pentax overstates their ISO ratings - I'm not a pro. However, I took 2 interior photos with the DS and the K100D, both at 1600. I don't remember now if I used the same lens (think I did, moved it from one camera to the other to keep things more equal). They both had exposed pictures about thesame (the DS was not noticably underexposed)but chose different shutter speeds. The K100D was sharper but a hair noiser in my opinion. I'm going to have to play with this more to come to any real conclusions, and also to use raw instead of jpg. I've already discovered that there is a noticable difference between the way the 2 cameras handle jpg files.
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Old Aug 14, 2006, 5:43 PM   #19
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ISO 2000 is only about 1/4 of a stop from ISO 1600, that is well within the latitude even of a digital sensor. This is a really useless statistic unless your exposure must be incredibly accurate.

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Old Aug 15, 2006, 4:03 AM   #20
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