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Old Mar 4, 2005, 6:25 AM   #11
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KENNETHD, I can understand that you may be licking your wounds at what appears to be a fairly clinical critique of your work, if youhave any pride in your work it is to be expected. But I have to say I agree with vindolandas' comments.

Reading through RodneyBlairs' posts a number of times, I cannot see where this has become a personal attack on yourself, or any insults whatsoever aimed at Jessica Z.

In fact it appears that you have discussed the topic of portraiture with RodneyBlair previously, and although the criticism is not to your liking, you should either accept it or just ignore it and move on. I would imagine that like most people, me included, you perhaps don't like being told.

If I do something and someone else felt it could be done better, then I would try to take on board those comments, however harsh they may seem to me.

Yes, Jessica Z is a very attractive model, as are the vast majority of models that members post photos of, but does anybody really post their work just to have people pass comments such as "lovely girl", "nice shot" etc, etc. While we all have an ego, and we do, most of us, me included again, would get nowhere with our attempts if we didn't listen. If I posted this photo and asked "Do you like this?", I would perhaps expect such comments. But if I had discussed a specific subject matter then I would hope for constructive criticism.

This is not an attack on yourself, I just cannot see where RodneyBlair went wrong. I would hope that you can swallow your pride and we can all be happy again. :-)

Regards,

Stevekin.
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Old Mar 4, 2005, 7:37 AM   #12
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I rarely participate in this forum (although I do read many of the posts)... But, I'm going to throw in my two cents worth anyway.

I've seen Rodney put his work out on forums, expecting critical review. That's a way to improve your skills (and help others improve theirs).

I can remember reading a recent thread discussing oneof Rodney's portraits in a Lighting Forum elsewhere. Every little detail was examined, even down to the color of the shirt the subject was wearing, the way the collar was turned up, the way the subject's hairblended into shadows, etc.

It was very obvious to me that Rodney wanted and appreciated the criticism (as did others participating in the thread, wanting to learn from it).

I think that most of the time, users put out their work expecting "great photo", "super shot", etc.

But, how would you ever know whatcould be improved, if nobody ever gave their honest appraisal of an image (especially someone with Rodney's eye andskills)?

There is no doubt in my mind that Rodney was making an honest (and brave) effort to critique this image, in the same way he would want others to critique his images.

Why brave? Rodney is relatively new to the forums here and he did not know how the criticism would be received. I feel confidentthat he would not want to offend anyone. But, he was brave enough to put out an honest appraisal of the image anyway, in an attempt to help others improve.

How many times have you looked at an image, wanting to point out something needing improvement, but "bit your tongue" instead? Why didn't you say anything? You didn't want to offend. It takes guts to give an appraisal like Rodney did, without knowing how it will be interpreted.

I've seen this subject (whether or not to give an honest critique) hotly debated in forums. If somone is not expecting this type of critique (as in the case here), it can offend. If someone is expecting this type of critique (as in some other forums), it is really appreciated.

IMO, it's refreshing to have someone with Rodney's skills participating in the forums here, and how you receive critique is only a matter of perspective (realizing that the criticism is constructive, designed to help you and others improvephotography skills).

IOW, don't take it personal. Be appreciative of criticism like this. I would be. It's only a matter of perspective.


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Old Mar 4, 2005, 8:05 AM   #13
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Your model i s wonderfull , i wish to have is cell number ??????
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Old Mar 4, 2005, 9:05 AM   #14
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vindolanda wrote:
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RodneyBlair - why not change your profile photo to something a little friendlier, that way your comments might be taken in the context I'm sure they are meant. :blah:
Oh no...I think I'm quite handsome in my profile photo.

Rodney
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Old Mar 4, 2005, 9:25 AM   #15
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Yeah maybe for your friendly neighborhood house-breaker,

but you'd still scare the kids.........:G...just kiddin!




Kenneth,

Sorry getting a bit off topic now. I liked the photo. I thought it was interesting andsomewhatprovocative. The model after all is very good lookingbut also showsa fair amount of character too.

However

"to capture the look of someone annoyed at being interrupted, while taking a call. The impatient look was meant to convey a "go away, you're bothering me" signal."

In this I think there is a problem due to the woodland location. A street or office location may have worked better for that story.

I liked it all the same,

Cant comment too much on the technical merits at my level however.
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Old Mar 4, 2005, 12:38 PM   #16
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Upon further reflection,the general "mood" of this forum is topostphotos for the sake of having fun with subjects, versus receiving technical critique.

So,from a forum etiquette perspective, the best approach would probably be not to offer constructive criticism, unless it's requested.

In any event, I wouldn't take constructive criticism personally when offered, as we can all learn from each other (which I believe was Rodney's intent here).

My skills are lacking enough that I have much to learn, so I probably appreciate this type of critiquemore than others. ;-)






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Old Mar 4, 2005, 5:55 PM   #17
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While I am far more of a Newb than your good self Kenneth, even I can see that none of what RodneyBlair said was directed towards Jessica. His comment about a rest stop was obviously about the pose, no suggestion whatsoever that the young lady would commit such an act.

You just need to either accept (well intentioned) criticism, or just ignore it altogether. But please don't take it personally or make it personal.

IMHO, protocol was observed correctly.

To date, I have enjoyed viewing all of Jessica's shots, just like I have enjoyed RodneyBlair's critiques. Let's just try to be friends, eh.

Regards,

Stevekin.

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Old Mar 5, 2005, 12:29 AM   #18
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My thanks to all for youradvice and delicately worded explanations. I don't begrudge an honest critical appraisal of any of my posts. It's not necessary to approach me with any more than reasonable politeness, even so, my compliments to all of you for an outstanding example of diplomacy. Amazingly, no one tried to stir the pot. A lot of thought was put into this topic, much of it to point out to me the benign nature of comments I took exception to. For whatever reason, this particulair "style" of advice is not to my liking, and having made that clear, and seeing a new forum being offered, I will let this lie. Some time ago I PM'd this critic and did so in the hope we could debate this privately without distracting other members, and conclude this in a friendly fashion. I got a reply through the forum declining my offer. Either way we have a conclusion, and I'm ok with it. Best regards,

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"KennethD
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Old Mar 5, 2005, 8:00 AM   #19
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KENNETHD wrote:
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My thanks to all for your advice and delicately worded explanations. I don't begrudge an honest critical appraisal of any of my posts. It's not necessary to approach me with any more than reasonable politeness, even so, my compliments to all of you for an outstanding example of diplomacy. Amazingly, no one tried to stir the pot. A lot of thought was put into this topic, much of it to point out to me the benign nature of comments I took exception to. For whatever reason, this particulair "style" of advice is not to my liking, and having made that clear, and seeing a new forum being offered, I will let this lie. Some time ago I PM'd this critic and did so in the hope we could debate this privately without distracting other members, and conclude this in a friendly fashion. I got a reply through the forum declining my offer. Either way we have a conclusion, and I'm ok with it. Best regards,

KennethD
My sincere apologies if your were offended, Kenneth. Somehow in the PM to me I read you were interested in comments to help you take your portrait photography to the next level. Of course, it was difficult to decipher with all the sexual orientation comments. Additionally, you didn't hesitate to make critical comments about the first images I shared here. Considering all comments, I concluded you were interested in this type of exchange.

Every time I visit my local camera dealer, there are always individuals just like you and I in the shop complaining that there pictures aren't coming out right. They quickly assume they have purchased the wrong camera or the camera is defective. Everyone wants their pictures to be properly exposed and be the best quality possible even if it is a silly candid shot. I often hear how noisy or grainy the images are from people who are new to digital. They do not realize that the majority of the time the noise is due to poor exposure. Unfortunately, most are not aware they have places like this forum where they can get suggestions to improve their understanding of how various elements affect an image.

You asked if I can get a great image outdoors in less than ideal lighting and the answer to that question is, "Yes I can". Once you learn to manipulate light and work within various lighting conditions, you can do anything you want. My Outdoor Shot with Strobe is one example and the Flash Techniques thread is another example. Also, Steve posted his Marie images which were all shot outdoors in direct sunlight. Frank has posted some fine examples too.

Best regards,
Rodney
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Old Mar 5, 2005, 3:52 PM   #20
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Rodney,

I looked at the initial photo - saw it, liked it, thought it was very good. Would have posted... nice shot, pretty model, etc.

Then I read your critique. Wow. Right on the money. I went back and forth between each comment going, uh huh, yep, didn't notice that. WOW! I still like the photo, but I see the its flaws that I would have othewise overlooked. That's not to take anything away from the photographer or the photo. I still like it.

I would love to develop an eye that's as critical as yours. Only by such feedback do you really learn how a professional "sees" a subject, what to look for, where the landmines are.

If you ever want to jump over to the Panasonic forum (...we're all amatures, which is why we bought Lumixes. I use the FZ-1v2, fine for me for now, as I develop. :G "Just enough camera" for me for now, plus it's small. ) and critique any photos I ever post, and take the time to provide such a detailed analysis...

WOW... I would be grateful and honored! Not sure how anyone else would react but you can't buy that kind of feedback. Well, actually you can but it costs a lot.

Best,

Nick T-
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