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Old Jul 8, 2007, 12:31 PM   #21
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Torgny wrote:
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The photo of the little boy brings hope for the future.
All photos of little boys and girls brings hope for the future, including this one.

Torgny wrote:
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So what are you afraid of, TCav, that the young in the world would strive for a new human being and a new world based upon solidarity and altruism
On the contrary, it is my most fervent hope that the young in the world strive for a new human being and a new world based upon solidarity and altruism.

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This is a significant photograph in many aspects or the word
Yes, but I think that some of the people here are attaching significance to it that it does not deserve.
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Old Jul 8, 2007, 12:39 PM   #22
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bahadir wrote:
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As for the Chevy scenerio, I am afraid it the most implausible thing to happen around here ...: )
As do I, but what I find equally implausible is the presumption that a 4 year old tracing the letter 'H' on a wall is an indication that there is hope for society where none existed before.

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40 years could be a longtime inpersonal history but not in terms of History.Thus, even in a world where societies are becoming lonely crowds, as long as people read and think,Che's legacy will survive...
Yes. Che's legacy is one we here are familiar with, and some, if not all of his goals are our own, and some if not all of his methods are our own (or we would at least condone their use.)

But I put it to you. Is your 4 year old son familiar with Che's legacy? Is he any more familiar with it after having traced the letter 'H' on a wall?

I think I can guess the answer.
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Old Jul 8, 2007, 4:46 PM   #23
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Thank you, alldear contributors

It's not my place to say my picture deserves this or that in my own post. Because I completed it and posted! And now it is subject to the perceptions of the observers. However, I'd like to refer to E.H. Gombrich here. He argues that there aren't any wrong reasons for liking a work but there could be wrong reasons for disliking it...

@TCav: I think you'rea bitmuch centered around the idea of whether the four year old boy has the knowledge of Che or not..Ah, really a bit much as to answer back your own 'yes/no' validation to prove your assumption! Sadly, meanwhile, a great number of facts which you overlook are lost due to the centrifugal force : )

You know, there are obvious and abstract qualities ( their proportion may vary) in any work. And there are methods, let's say, to make a piece of writing 'literature'...Let's take 'foreshadowing'. Do the characters or even the reader have a true knowledge of the 'plot' which has merely been hinted by the author? (whose very 'two letter' answer will apply yours if you're really expecting one; )

Ok! Now, take the four yer old boy! Surely he was not the first one who passed by the 'three letter word'....but the one who paid attention to what was left on his route and I was the one who photographed it!Well, nobody knows what he'll leave behind ...but a good start I guess, considering every individual and relationship a new proposal to life!

Once I took a photo of a group of 'shoe shining' boys fighting each other in front of a luxurious showroom of a car company (after it was sold to GM! Ah, it wasn't Chevy, btw :G) :!:Well did the boys know the real reason of their fight and of their poverty? Invariably the same reply:No!....Were they aware of their merits which would be buried in them forever due to the lack of proper education? and again, that will be: No! I am so sorry that this image is lost as with their fates...Now, someonecan say these 'children of the damned' would fight eveywhere, and accuse me of agitation!Well, it is not false toexpressthe superficialfact which is seen 'obviously': )But then, it is sth like saying ' the event takes place in Russia' after reading Anna Karenina!



PS.For those who are interestedbelow isthe lyrics of 'children of the damned'

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/i/iron+ma..._20068022.html




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Old Jul 9, 2007, 8:50 PM   #24
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I'm disappointed in this thread on this otherwise enjoyable photography forum. The thinly veiled country bashing and boldly stated Marxist support have no place here, but such interchange is almost inevitable where people congregate and comment on things, in this case a simple photograph of a charming boy. Let's leave this stuff alone and get back to effusively supportive comments about photographs and helping those who ask for it. The internet may yet save the world if we concentrate on the things we have in common.
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Old Jul 10, 2007, 1:35 AM   #25
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JDar,

I am so sorry if I in any way have disappointed you. You are the person that I least want to disappoint. You really care for people, for their intentions and their hopes.

That is also my main interest, making people around me as happy as possible. I am so sad for having disappointed you.

Our feelings of disappointment and sadness can be seen in a wider context though, and be compared to the physical suffering (starvation, torture) that we see around the world

Hope this doesn´t come in between us. With deep understanding, your continous friend on the web

Torgny


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Old Jul 10, 2007, 2:12 AM   #26
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There's no need for resentment or disappointment, IMHO : ) I am thankful for all who took their time to provide their feedbacks sincerely (regardless of their philosophy) which is most important. The contrary ideas allowed me the opportunity of experiencing Alienation effect, which Torgny had brought in one of our earlier discussions:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...amp;forum_id=8

I believe when you read the thread throughly you'll find more than 'country bashing and boldly stated Marxist support-ah,btw the lattermust still be a guilt to be ashamed of:G )

You know, a well known quotationby Ansel Adams is:'When I feel something, I photograph it'.Above you'llread people who ask me to move to Cuba:shock: Maybe I should have apoligized them because the subject matter of the photograph is nota view from my balcony this time !!

Anyway, I cannot help but agree on yoursuggestion of concentrating on a thing we have in common: Photography....providing of course considering its true meaning: Writing with light (Photos+graphos) which makes itbrother to temporal arts such as literatureflourishing from the same fertile ground



PS. JDar, I have just read Torgny's reply above and I secondhis words! Reading the first lines of my reply please do not think I underestimateyour concerns.

From the Aegean with love : )








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Old Jul 10, 2007, 2:37 PM   #27
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JDar wrote:
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I'm disappointed in this thread on this otherwise enjoyable photography forum. The thinly veiled country bashing and boldly stated Marxist support have no place here, but such interchange is almost inevitable where people congregate and comment on things, in this case a simple photograph of a charming boy. Let's leave this stuff alone and get back to effusively supportive comments about photographs and helping those who ask for it. The internet may yet save the world if we concentrate on the things we have in common.
Because I live in a democracy, I bear some of the responsibility for the policies of my government, past, present and future, so I accept what you call "country bashing" in the normal progress of a discussion like this. I have observed, up close, cultures of various types around the world, and agree with those that saythe United States suffers from the arrogance of youth. What has been occurring in this topic constitutes a free exchange of ideas, albeit "off-topic". At its most extreme, what I see here is a philosophical discussion (and this is most important) free of personal attacks.

Unless you want to include the "move to Cuba" comment, to which I respond that Cuba has a higher literacy rate and a lower infant mortality rate than the United States, so there's something to be said for that.

I'm sorry that you are concerned by the (heated?) outpouring of ideas and opinions. I enjoy the occasional philosophical, political, or theological discussion, though I understand that observers can become distressed by some of the arguments, however harmless they might be.

And if the internet is going to save the world, it needs to include some rational cross-cultural discussions, however upsetting they might be to the casual observer. Steves-digicams.com may not be an appropriate venue, however.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 10:08 AM   #28
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Please consider this as a late(!) footnote toTCav's insightful comment above,which, in fact, concludes all and therefore requires no further reply at all other than a sincere ' thank you! '...

Walking around the bookshops today, I just happened to see a book whose name could be translated into English as ' I am nothostile tocountries, I amhostile towar' which hasinspired me to write these words.

Anyway, the name of the bookreliesona smalltalk between the author of the book and an attendant at the Peace Parkin Hiroshima, at which point the author makes a joke to the attendant listening to American music and receives the replywhichwas toname his book upon his return:!:

Ah, as for democracy, ' the best possible system of government available '; especially after the latest elections here,some advertisement of Rothmans often comes to my mind: ' The best tobacco money can buy ' :G



Btw, here's the book:






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Old Jul 30, 2007, 10:40 AM   #29
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"... democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others ..."

- Winston Churchill

And thank you, bahadir. And thank you all who've participated in this topic.
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