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Old Feb 17, 2010, 6:31 AM   #31
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Dear Amcam and Chato, in the first place I should thank you for your interest in this almost two year old thread displaying one of my early attempts of HDR, which I happened to discover quite by chance : ) Anyway, depending on my humble two years' experience I can say that the tone mapping session in any HDR software, which however requires care, knowledge and good eye, is only the first step to the essential refinement session in the Photoshop, without which I consider raw material. But the destiny of the whole process is determined by the first or reference shot of the 3 or 5 shots of differing exposures, which requires the photographer to be aware of matters of exposure.
As for the question ''Why bother when you can simply process the original RAW file?'' perhaps one should ask the other way round '' Why bother with processing with a single raw file containing ten stops of dynamic range at most which is almost one third of my real experience?'' Well, of course you can look for other scenes which requires less dynamic range, alas the chance has gone ; ) That being said, the raw process is my very first act since I only shoot raw and do all my tone mapping and photoshop process in tiff format to benefit from the generousity of the raw files I captured.

You may remember from your art classes that an essential component of attaining a three dimensional look is shading. You may draw a human face or any object and see how applying a gradual shading brings out that feel. Now, if nothing else I appreciate the hdr technique for enabling me to bring out the subtle, gradual yet broad range of shading on the items as they really appeared to me even under the strong Aegean sun...

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100% crop:

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Old Feb 17, 2010, 10:17 AM   #32
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Very well stated Bahadir.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 5:18 PM   #33
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Glad to see your smiling face my friend. How have you been? All is well I hope.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 6:38 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bahadir View Post
Dear Amcam and Chato, in the first place I should thank you for your interest in this almost two year old thread displaying one of my early attempts of HDR, which I happened to discover quite by chance : ) Anyway, depending on my humble two years' experience I can say that the tone mapping session in any HDR software, which however requires care, knowledge and good eye, is only the first step to the essential refinement session in the Photoshop, without which I consider raw material. But the destiny of the whole process is determined by the first or reference shot of the 3 or 5 shots of differing exposures, which requires the photographer to be aware of matters of exposure.
As for the question ''Why bother when you can simply process the original RAW file?'' perhaps one should ask the other way round '' Why bother with processing with a single raw file containing ten stops of dynamic range at most which is almost one third of my real experience?'' Well, of course you can look for other scenes which requires less dynamic range, alas the chance has gone ; ) That being said, the raw process is my very first act since I only shoot raw and do all my tone mapping and photoshop process in tiff format to benefit from the generousity of the raw files I captured.

You may remember from your art classes that an essential component of attaining a three dimensional look is shading. You may draw a human face or any object and see how applying a gradual shading brings out that feel. Now, if nothing else I appreciate the hdr technique for enabling me to bring out the subtle, gradual yet broad range of shading on the items as they really appeared to me even under the strong Aegean sun...

The whole picture:
Hmm? Other than pointing out that I missed the fact that this thread is two years old (my bad) what's your point?

And a nice shot that you posted. So?

MY POINT, is that HDR is a very useful photographic technique, just as unsharp mask or any number of processing techiques would be the envy of someone who worked in a darkroom (and I should know, I worked with my own darkroom, and wouldn't go back unless you paid me BIG BUCK$)

If I had to choose between giving up HDR, Unsharp Mask or Noise Ninja, HDR would be the first to go.

Some HDR proponents always give me the impression that without this technique, capturing a wide dyamic range just ain't gonna happen.

Well, it just ain't so. And if people new to photography believe them, then they will have a self fulfilling prophecy - They never will be able to capture a wide dynamic range. And this TOO is my point.






Dave

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Old Feb 18, 2010, 2:04 PM   #35
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Pointless photos again Chato. The example posted by gentleman Bahadir is perfect to show what kind of picks HDR is needed for: you can see the otherwise impossible details behind the harsh shadows in the ionic column and the ground as well as in the mountains in the back. You can't show that level of detail in a single pick.
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 4:47 PM   #36
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Hmm? Other than pointing out that I missed the fact that this thread is two years old (my bad) what's your point?

And a nice shot that you posted. So?
So, Chato, what you see there under the strong summer sun is marble, which derives from the verb marmairein (to sparkle, to shine). I’m not sure if you realised that the second picture in my post is a 100% crop from the whole picture… Anyway, there you can observe the subtle shading even on the surface directly exposed to sunlight preserving the amount of observable detail gradually going into the deep shadows even in the shadows of tiny plants and the column itself as if you’re really there. At the same time, coming back to the original picture you can stil see the bright sky not even a bit molten or blown. Having been to many ancient sites I guarantee you that such a sight, without sunglasses, dazzles your eyes (capable of handling twice more dynamic range than the dslr in a single shot)
Now at this point also please refer to the lines in my previous post regarding the role of shading in a three dimensional representation.
Btw, I have a catalogue of butterfly and duck shots which required no more than a single shot. So, I could provide ‘nicer’ photos for your liking, but I intended to keep to the subject.

I‘m afraid you’re also misinterpreting ‘some HDR proponents’. They don’t say you can’t capture a ‘wide dynamic range’ from a single raw file. You can also capture a ‘wide dynamic range’ from a siggle jpeg file! After all Ken Rockwell likens people saving raw data to people who save twenty years of newspapers in piles ; )
For the one who concludes that the event takes place in Russia after reading the second volume of Anna Karenina, I can say no more...
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 4:49 PM   #37
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Very well stated Bahadir.
Dear Walter, thank you for your kind appreciation. It's been delightful to return to the forums on an occasion.
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 4:54 PM   #38
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Glad to see your smiling face my friend. How have you been? All is well I hope.
Thank you for the warm welcome! Still alive, my friend : ) Actually, I've been quite stressed by my doctoral assignments going along with my responsibilies as a family man! Meanwhile I've been running a photography course for almost five months, during my absence in the forums! After all they say you teach best what you seek to learn most : )
Below is the facebook page of my course!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fotogr...R/139418211483
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 5:21 PM   #39
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Pointless photos again Chato. The example posted by gentleman Bahadir is perfect to show what kind of picks HDR is needed for: you can see the otherwise impossible details behind the harsh shadows in the ionic column and the ground as well as in the mountains in the back. You can't show that level of detail in a single pick.
You've hit the nail on the head with your comment, which signals to a great deal of visual literacy as well
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 6:18 PM   #40
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Pointless photos again Chato. The example posted by gentleman Bahadir is perfect to show what kind of picks HDR is needed for: you can see the otherwise impossible details behind the harsh shadows in the ionic column and the ground as well as in the mountains in the back. You can't show that level of detail in a single pick.


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