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Old Sep 13, 2009, 5:38 PM   #11
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No problem Hards80. Im such a lover of HDR I think of it as the new great toy and not just a fad of the age.
Well, forgetting about HDR for the moment, there is photography, and there is digital art, based on photography. After seeing what the scene actually looked like, this picture falls into the digital art catagory.

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Old Sep 13, 2009, 5:43 PM   #12
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No problem Hards80. Im such a lover of HDR I think of it as the new great toy and not just a fad of the age.
as am I, i recently picked up photmatix 3.2. just waiting for my camera to get here so i have a chance to try it out.
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Old Sep 13, 2009, 6:49 PM   #13
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Well, forgetting about HDR for the moment, there is photography, and there is digital art, based on photography. After seeing what the scene actually looked like, this picture falls into the digital art catagory.

Dave
And your point is?
HDR has added a new dimension, or rather it has repaired the problem with the old dimension. Photos could never take a picture as the eye sees it in a single shot. Thats one use for HDR. Another is creating something different, hopefully better, that the original. This is digitally manipulating the photograph. Actually photography as you see it doesnt exist any more unless you are using film. Now we have digital files. And we are just manipulating those files in a similar way as using filters and lens attachments or darkroom techniques in the old days with film. If you have a problem with that then the solution is simple. Just dont look.

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Old Sep 14, 2009, 12:16 PM   #14
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And your point is?
HDR has added a new dimension, or rather it has repaired the problem with the old dimension. Photos could never take a picture as the eye sees it in a single shot. Thats one use for HDR. Another is creating something different, hopefully better, that the original. This is digitally manipulating the photograph. Actually photography as you see it doesnt exist any more unless you are using film. Now we have digital files. And we are just manipulating those files in a similar way as using filters and lens attachments or darkroom techniques in the old days with film. If you have a problem with that then the solution is simple. Just dont look.
My point is, is that the colors do not match reality. This is not a criticism of the image, but a neutral statement. Digital Art has it's own merits, and are good, bad, or somewhere inbetween.

"Actually photography as you see it doesnt exist any more unless you are using film."

You think so?

Photography of course is more than a simple mastery of a craft. Nor does it get better just because it's altered. Nor is there anything that you can do digitally, that can't be done with film. The art in photography is done by the way you frame, light, and focus the subject. Once you create a new subject you are making art. Nothing wrong with that...

In this case, the image no longer matches the subject - Meaning it's now leans more toward the catagory of art, as opposed to photography.

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Old Sep 14, 2009, 12:48 PM   #15
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i know what you mean chato ... you take away the photograph away from the photo sort of speak .

i personally love modified images due to hdr no doubt how far you go is definatly a question of personal taste i have some images that are very heavily done the reason being i just love playing around and the ones i only tweak a little or moderate i do not post as i use these for competition purposes at my local photography society however i always post at least one version on here to gain a little feedback of the shot itself and of coarse for fun i throw some strange hdring in too.... i always take one normal shot of the location or subject aswell when im there no brkt or ev settings for my personal collection , this way i can see how far i have stretched / modified the scene/subject .

im taking 5 before and 5 after shots tonight to the photo society im a member of the members there are all old school so no doubt i will take a bashing ..... however i want to display the rights and wrongs LOL and try to open there minds a little ....no doubt it will be interesting as some started with slides - film and finally some switched to digital

forgot to add i dont always use hdr LOL although it appears so

Last edited by simple; Sep 14, 2009 at 12:53 PM.
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Old Sep 14, 2009, 1:51 PM   #16
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My point is, is that the colors do not match reality. This is not a criticism of the image, but a neutral statement. Digital Art has it's own merits, and are good, bad, or somewhere inbetween.

"Actually photography as you see it doesnt exist any more unless you are using film."

You think so?

Photography of course is more than a simple mastery of a craft. Nor does it get better just because it's altered. Nor is there anything that you can do digitally, that can't be done with film. The art in photography is done by the way you frame, light, and focus the subject. Once you create a new subject you are making art. Nothing wrong with that...

In this case, the image no longer matches the subject - Meaning it's now leans more toward the catagory of art, as opposed to photography.

Dave
Ah, now I must apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying. And your last sentence is what I like about HDR. It allows one to go beyond a photograph and into the realm of art. The choice is ours how far we go. As simon has shown the photo can be very realistic and extraordinary to look at. On the other hand it can be somewhat surreal in the color saturation and definition that HDR technique gives. I think its a compliment to have someone say .... "Now that is beyond a photograph, that is a piece of art". So we are on the same wavelength. And as much as I like HDR, Ive seen some pretty dreadful stuff which was probably useful as an academic exercise in what not to do. One thing I do not agree with is that we could do anything in film we can do in digital. Oh no. Not by a long shot. Or at least not by a good number of years of darkroom training. We can do so much more in digital with Photoshop than film users could ever dream of. As the sensors get better the quality of the photos will improve and there will be no limit to what the simple guy with a little computer can come up with.
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Old Sep 14, 2009, 2:59 PM   #17
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i know what you mean chato ... you take away the photograph away from the photo sort of speak .

i personally love modified images due to hdr no doubt how far you go is definatly a question of personal taste i have some images that are very heavily done the reason being i just love playing around and the ones i only tweak a little or moderate i do not post as i use these for competition purposes at my local photography society however i always post at least one version on here to gain a little feedback of the shot itself and of coarse for fun i throw some strange hdring in too.... i always take one normal shot of the location or subject aswell when im there no brkt or ev settings for my personal collection , this way i can see how far i have stretched / modified the scene/subject .

im taking 5 before and 5 after shots tonight to the photo society im a member of the members there are all old school so no doubt i will take a bashing ..... however i want to display the rights and wrongs LOL and try to open there minds a little ....no doubt it will be interesting as some started with slides - film and finally some switched to digital

forgot to add i dont always use hdr LOL although it appears so

I have no problem with HDR, and I have no problem with digital art.

If I have a criticism of HDR, it is that it is often used when not needed. It can also be a crutch for those starting out in photography, and have not yet mastered the potentials of their equipment. At the moment, HDR can only be used on still subjects - Only one aspect of photography. Do you really want to handicap yourself to this extent?

There have been many fine examples of HDR posted on this site, including yours.

In this case, I actually like the scene that you choose to photograph, and it works better in Non HDR mode, although I would have chosen a different angle, and tried for better light. The image you posted, is just fine, but it strikes me as "off," if you know what I mean.

I appreciate the beating you're going to get from the old timers, myself included - But those images of the Churches you took, should silence skeptics.

But I ask, would HDR improve this image? Or the next?







When it comes to a subject actually moving - What then?




I always advise those starting out in photography to stay away from HDR until they can capture highlights and shadows in their work. But of course, just my opinion.

Dave
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Old Sep 14, 2009, 3:10 PM   #18
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Ah, now I must apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying. And your last sentence is what I like about HDR. It allows one to go beyond a photograph and into the realm of art. The choice is ours how far we go. As simon has shown the photo can be very realistic and extraordinary to look at. On the other hand it can be somewhat surreal in the color saturation and definition that HDR technique gives. I think its a compliment to have someone say .... "Now that is beyond a photograph, that is a piece of art". So we are on the same wavelength. And as much as I like HDR, Ive seen some pretty dreadful stuff which was probably useful as an academic exercise in what not to do. One thing I do not agree with is that we could do anything in film we can do in digital. Oh no. Not by a long shot. Or at least not by a good number of years of darkroom training. We can do so much more in digital with Photoshop than film users could ever dream of. As the sensors get better the quality of the photos will improve and there will be no limit to what the simple guy with a little computer can come up with.
Ansel Adams would have gone banana's over Photoshop, but all of his work was tone mapped, and achieves the same effect as HDR - Certainly I can't imagine any improvement over his technique. One has to go to the library and examine the old masters of film in order to appreciate this. As someone who learned photography in a dark room, I'm not kidding when I say anything can be done - Even though you are perfectly correct, that comparing hours of laborious work, to a few minutes with Photoshop is not something that I'm going back to.

My darkroom equipment is Long Gone.

What I enjoy most out of the HDR that I see, is when I don't see it.

As far as making art goes, HDR is only one of many techniques. Once you reach a point of distorting the image to the point that it barely resembles a photograph, there are dozens of PS filters you can buy that can do the same thing.

I don't want to be misunderstood - In it's place, HDR brings an entirely new dimension to photography. While I pride myself on my ability to capture highlights and shadow with my photography, there are many times where I offer my wildlife targets money to move to another and better lighted location.

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Old Sep 14, 2009, 3:43 PM   #19
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i have done a small waterfall in hdr somewhere that didnt come out too bad just made the water nice and creamy does that count as movement LOL.

WELL I SHOWED MY 5 BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS ..... i was quite gobsmacked they went down rather well followed by a few questions and a request that i do a talk one session on HDR now instead of shooting photos i will be making a brief guide / introduction to hdr LMAO luckily for myself there is one other member that as the same interest who can help out
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Old Sep 14, 2009, 7:30 PM   #20
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i have done a small waterfall in hdr somewhere that didnt come out too bad just made the water nice and creamy does that count as movement LOL.
He heh, he...

The way to shoot water to get that effect, is to lower your ISO, close down the lens, and then shoot for 1/2 to 1 second, depending on the light.


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WELL I SHOWED MY 5 BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS ..... i was quite gobsmacked they went down rather well followed by a few questions and a request that i do a talk one session on HDR now instead of shooting photos i will be making a brief guide / introduction to hdr LMAO luckily for myself there is one other member that as the same interest who can help out
I was quite impressed with your use of HDR. I'm not surprised.

I'm just giving you fair warning that HDR is a technique that can become a habit, and you will find yourself blowing shots that you want, because they are not suitable candidates for HDR.

Hey, this is supposed to be FUN, and don't let an old fuddy duddy like me throw cold water on you.

Binx has pointed out the use of HDR as an artistic medium. Here's part of a ten shot series, no special processing, but I manuvered to get the light just right. Because I know what my equipment can do, I knew how this would come out.



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