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Old Nov 16, 2009, 9:34 AM   #21
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Extreme cropping and some pp (rudimentary here) gives something like this:

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Old Nov 16, 2009, 4:50 PM   #22
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Dave - the part I think you might be missing is it's the DEGREE of blur or out-of-focus in a number of your shots. Take the image you posted here for critique. There is nothingn about the subject itself that compensates for the degredation of image quality in the photo or the extreme blur. It's going to be a rare photo where the subject IS powerful enough to overcome that. Same was true when you posted shots labeled portraits where people actually stood and posed for you to take photos and the photos were blurred. Unfortunately I really think you'll have a difficult time finding photographers who believe a posed shot that's blurred is a good photograph. For certain some motion blur can be advantageous - but not in posed shots and not to the degree many of your night shots have. It's too much. What makes it worse is when people suggest theses things, instead of accepting the criticism you argue that it is a 'style' or 'genre' of photography to show too much blur.

It seems to me that the disconnect is you appear to believe: if the subject is of interest than any picture YOU take of that subject must by definition be interesting. Their are two assumptions here which are open for critique. First, other people can and do differ in their opinions of whether a subject is interesting to begin with. But, even if they believe the subject is interesting it is entirely possible and valid for them to believe you didn't do an good job of producing an interesting PHOTO. Again, subject might be interesting but the photo might not be.
Not for nothing John, but you have panned shots that I've posted here that were as sharp as anyone could desire.

Keep in mind that I've posted a dozen series of shots, and I can't recall you saying you liked any of them. In fact, you've called all my street shots, "snapshots" without any merit.









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Old Nov 16, 2009, 4:51 PM   #23
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[QUOTE=Ordo;1020001]Extreme cropping and some pp (rudimentary here) gives something like this:

LOL! Thanks Ordo, but I've deleted the shot...

Dave
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 5:14 PM   #24
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Not for nothing John, but you have panned shots that I've posted here that were as sharp as anyone could desire.

Keep in mind that I've posted a dozen series of shots, and I can't recall you saying you liked any of them. In fact, you've called all my street shots, "snapshots" without any merit.
Finally, I regard some of my night scenes, blur and all, as succeding in capturing the mood at the time...








So while I find your crittique of the shot under discussion (and this is the only shot I've posted for a direct critique) completely relevant and justified, the plain fact of the matter is that you've used identical language to describe worthwhile images, which simply don't appeal to your particular taste.

Unlike Bynx, who isn't capable of discussing a question, you are - So what are you driving at?

Dave
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 5:26 PM   #25
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Just because I'm a glutton for punishment, I'm going to jump in here. I just recently started shooting DSLR again after a 20+ year hiatus. However, I've been working with video for those 20 years. I come onto the site to see what other people have done. I feel that gives me an unbiased opinion, if you disagree, that's fine.

The original photo was too busy. Was I supposed to focus on the girl in black or the girl in white? My eyes were also drawn to the bright doorway.

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I like part of the above shot. I think if you would have cropped out the pickup truck on the right it would have help. It dragged my eyes away from the girls in the middle, who have a nice highlight the way the sun is hitting them.
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To me the story here is the old lady, but she's so small compared to the rest of the picture, she gets lost.
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Again, way too much... what are you trying to highlight? The amount of trash, the name of "Burp", or the lady dragging a bicycle tire on a leash? Yes, I know it's a dog but only after looking closely.
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Dave
This is the best shot of the bunch, but again, I see "too much"... crop out the garbage at least. It looks like you caught a guy "sneaking a peak" at an attractive lady going by. This is as close to conveying a "mood" to me as anything I've seen.

These are just the comments of a (VERY) amateur photographer and just my initial reactions.
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 6:46 PM   #26
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ha ha ha ha ha ha youre funny
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 7:57 PM   #27
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ha ha ha ha ha ha youre funny
Who? And in a good or bad way?
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 9:55 PM   #28
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Not you Sam, Im referring to Chato. He says Im not capable of discussing a question. Which this proves I obviously am. hahahaha.
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 10:25 PM   #29
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Chato,
It sounds to me that your pictures are coming out exactly as you see them in your mind. Leaving no room or need to change or improve your finish photograph. That being the case, then print, mount, frame and display them in a gallery or street showing to see what the general public thinks about your work. It is always a great feeling when someone wants to buy one of my pictures. Try it and see what happens, if nothing else it's always fun learning experience and a nice way to get out of the house.
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 6:50 AM   #30
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Not for nothing John, but you have panned shots that I've posted here that were as sharp as anyone could desire.

Keep in mind that I've posted a dozen series of shots, and I can't recall you saying you liked any of them. In fact, you've called all my street shots, "snapshots" without any merit.

Dave
Actually Dave I've commented on a couple of your wildlife shots that I thought were very good. What I called 'snapshots' were the shots you labeled as PORTRAITS where people posed for the shot and the shot was still poorly executed. Dave I'm sorry that's just bad snapshot in my mind - they POSED and you had a poorly executed shot. The PHOTOs you produced were just bad - you labeled them portraits and that's what they tried to be - people posing but the shots were blurred. They were snapshots as if my 20 year old niece had snapped them with her camera phone - same basic quality.

In one case I made a suggestion that being closer would have produced better shots - showing more faces. The vast majority of your street photography shots I have simply not commented on. It really is nothing personal - when you tried to tout those geese as an example of how good shots with manual focus could do on moving subjects I gave an honest opinion that they were not very good. When you posted better wildlife photos I chimed in and said I thought they were good. The vast majority of your street photography shots I just don't comment on because there's no compelling story so I'm just not sharing your vision. But the ones with way too much blur and you arguing that's more true to life I just happen to disagree. Again, just because you are capable of producing great shots doesn't mean every shot produced by you is great. And in the case of over-the-top-blur or too much cropping they're poor IMO. Not necessarily because the subject is poor but because you did not IMO captue the subject well - often because you used the wrong tool for the job. Now you've stated why you don't want to use a better tool for your low light work but that still doesn't elevate your results. I'll keep using the same analogy - I can WANT to take those BIF shots with my 50mm lens and I could make excuses why I don't want to use my 400mm lens but at the end of the day my WANTING to use the 50mm lens doesn't make my BIF shots at 200 yards any better. It's still the wrong tool for the job. SO, I can either choose a different job - one the 50mm is better suited for or I can use the right tool for the job I want to perform.

In your case you're shooting at light levels too low for the camera you're using to capture quality shots of moving subjects. You're faced with the same 3 options:
1) Continue to produce poor quality shots because you have a difficult job and the wrong tool for it

2) Shoot in better light where your chosen camera is better suited to produce better quality results

3) select a camera/lens better suited for the difficult task

In 2 & 3, there's still no guarantee people will find the photos you make compelling - it still has to be a compelling subject, caught and framed in a way that tells a compelling story. But right now the technical faults of the low light street photography is damaging any ability to tell a compelling story.

If you prefer though, I will refrain from commenting further in threads you start about your street photography. Just let me know.

John
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