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Old Jan 19, 2006, 7:47 AM   #41
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In search of Syd wrote:
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Although I think that Jaki has dealt with it, the only comment I personally have a bit of difficulty with is Tom's;

"There may be many things you can learn from this one shot, and from some of the unwanted attention it has attracted."

I don't quite understand this highly subjective comment and perhaps Tom could explain his meanings further. Who decided that certain comments were "unwanted".

Seems to suggest "Agree or shut up". Now that's a really bad philosophy.

So, Tom! Would love to hear your explanation here.
Hey Syd;

I think you may have mis-interpreted my intent here. I certainly am not one to stifle a healthy debate. My comments were addressing the fact (my impression of the facts, at least) that some of the attention was becoming more of a personal nature. "Unwanted" in this case refers to my impression (again) that this may not have been the constructive kind of feedback that Mike was looking for.

If you will look at the remainder of my comments, you will see that I was simply trying to encourage Mike to continue with shots of this nature. There are elements in this shot that have been used effectively by award-winning photographers. If Mike gets the combination right, he could take the photography world by storm. His "mistakes" as we see them here, may be the keys towards taking outstanding photos.

That being said, Mike doesn't need me or anyone to shield him from criticism. My intent was only to contribute to the discussion in a healthy manner.

Cheers,

Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada
http://tomoverton.myphotoalbum.com

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Old Jan 19, 2006, 8:07 AM   #42
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Old Jan 19, 2006, 8:53 AM   #43
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relatively speaking - No.
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Old Jan 19, 2006, 9:29 AM   #44
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In search of Syd wrote:
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Points taken Tom. I'm glad you cleared that up. Just didn't like that term "unwanted" it just didn't sit so well.

I didn't realise that anyone was taking anything personally ~ Critique means both positiveand negative. Both relative terms, like good and bad. To me ~ it's all good.

Anyone want to discuss relativity? :P
Just to further stir the pot here, some of the early comments in this thread seem to be saying "don't take/post shots like this." To me, thisis the wrong message. This is why my "critique" tried to focus on the individual elements which may or may not have worked in this shot. There is a valid defense for each element in this photo. If we only take "safe" shots, we will never test our limits.

Getting back to the shot in question, one point I refrained from making earlier is that this shot seems to be just on the edge of your lens' wide-angle performance. When you get too close at the wide setting, face shots aren't very flattering. Taken from more of a distance with alonger lens, the facial proportions usually look a little more balanced. Unless... you are looking for a character/caricature type of shot, in which case it is a conscious decision, and once again, a valid photo element.

Cheers,

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Old Jan 19, 2006, 10:23 AM   #45
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There are elements in this shot that have been used effectively by award-winning photographers. If Mike gets the combination right, he could take the photography world by storm. His "mistakes" as we see them here, may be the keys towards taking outstanding photos.
What elements that then? the aspect ratio maybe???? :blah:

Sorry but I totally disagree. Now I don't want to be pushed into a proper critique of the shot in question, it is now unneccessary to flog the horseas the general pointswere outlined in the first few responses by Hards and Julie.

But have you ever heard the story of the Emperors new cloths ?

Now let me just firstly mention:

Mike knows I like the majority of his shots and he knows I have on many occasions praised him and encouraged him to stick his neck out with new stuff. This was mainly because it was obvious to me he had a keen and original photographic eye.



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some of the early comments in this thread seem to be saying "don't take/post shots like this." To me, thisis the wrong message
Dustin mentioning as to why this was even posted is maybe the only comment that might come under this category. This was made due to the familiarity of the participants in question. But also lets not get too confused here : these are not good photographs by any standardand certainly notby Mike'sprevious postings.

Now you can quote and show as many award winning examples as you like, for me that would just be Emperors new cloths, and will not change the previously mentioned reasons why these examples simply don't work.

Had Mike mentioned he was going after a particular style an quoted this (non-existent) technique, then there might have been something more to talk about. However to come on here and say they remind you of a fantastic and original award winning example that you cant seem to find, is only stoking the New Cloths scenario and causing confusion that learning members on the site can easily do without.

Lets stick to tried and tested photographictechniques, or if not that, at least some fancy/original ones that at least still tell our eyes and brains that what we are looking at are quality images. This is a photographic critique forum after all, or would you prefer a sewing bee?

Sorry about the rant..... but really, come on!

Ps, Mike has shown himself man enough to take it on the chin, without thisclutching at straws on a failed couple of shutter actuations.

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Old Jan 19, 2006, 11:07 AM   #46
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I've only posted twice syd????

What you talking aboutanyway, its a forum..... right?
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Old Jan 19, 2006, 11:13 AM   #47
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Following up Steve's comments about having seen similar techniques, I think I know what he means although I am not sure those shots are technique so much as shots of opportunity where you take what you get. Certainly, there are many great photos that are out of focus, have camera shake and poor framing and horizon - I am thinking largely of war photojournalism, particularly some of the shots I have seen of the first wave in on Normandy on (the) D-day. From a purely technical pointnot great shots at all. Under the circumstances, amazing courage and amazing that they got anything at all. As well, the imperfections enhance the chaos and extreme circumstances they were taken in and definitely work.

As well, there are less than perfect photos where the subject has unusual or unflattering expressions that also work. In general, these are of subjects who are in the public eye and the unusual expression presents them in a light which is different from the one we have come to expect. Even a poorly executed photo of these moments evokes a response/emotion from the viewer.

I think one thing posting a photo such as this explores is how well doesthe viewerhave to know the subject in order to evoke an interest inan unusualphoto. In this case, when there isn't a large story within the picture, and it's certainly not a glamour shot, you have to know the subject fairly well. Not that one would want all photos to be "misses", but exploring the odd mistake helps in different ways than seeing very good shots.

Kevin
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Old Jan 19, 2006, 11:47 AM   #48
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lol. and the beat goes on....
you may not like my photos but you can't deny my ability to stir the pot.
(or maybe syds ability to smoke it) lol, no offense intended syd.
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Old Jan 19, 2006, 11:58 AM   #49
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Well as a consolation Mike, you may have won the prize for the longest thread this year. What did Dustins apology thread run to in the end ? And lets face it, that was totally useless, without a photo in sight.

ps. We like your photographs, just not the ones taken by your little sister....:blah:
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Old Jan 19, 2006, 3:14 PM   #50
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