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Old Apr 8, 2008, 11:26 AM   #1091
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Just like to add another link I found - this one on the Redrock forum:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/forum/vi...86cd8e8a1ba596

I guess they got conned too :roll:

And here's a thread that has pictures ofa Sanyo HD2 onthe RedrockM2 (Andrea even posts asking for help with the Sanyoin this one):

http://www.redrockmicro.com/forum/vi...&highlight=

And a link to a video from that setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwvo2Y7PhmA

So... stillimpossible? Can I stop now?



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Old Apr 8, 2008, 12:06 PM   #1092
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Ok, granted it's an HD2 and not an HD1000, but I'd imagine connecting an HD1000 would be a bit easier as it at least has 40.5mm threads as opposed to the HD2 which doesn't have a threaded lens.


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Old Apr 8, 2008, 12:10 PM   #1093
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Rev2010 wrote:
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But, I'm pretty certain I could still¬*pull off a¬*nice music video with some¬*low cost¬*additional accessories, my video editing software, and a few plugins which seems like all tvjohn's friend would likely need.
And that is the point. It's about reasonable expectations. I love my HD1000, but if that music video had been used on Sanyo's site as demo footage I would have returned my camera thinking it was broken. The people coming to this forum want to know what they can do with the camera. A much better example of a music video shot with the HD1000 is Better Off Without You by The Clarks.
So, when someone like John, who is potentially coming to the camera after seeing Andrea's stuff, is going to be really disappointed with his Sanyo - especially coming late to the forum and not seeing the average users footage.

Andrea may, for whatever reason, have actually used the set up that he is suggesting. I still have my doubts, though I'm not doubting that he himself is the one that is putting the information out there. I am actually quite curious to see what real, unprocessed footage looks like from such a set up. So for anyone that wants to attempt it:

You will need step up rings to change the sanyo's 40.5 filter thread to 72mm. You will lose about a stop of light (and the sanyo's not great in low light already). You MUST buy the whole set up (i.e. the M2 is heavy and can not be used without some sort of rail support system). This will add about 3lbs to the camera weight. You will have to know what SLR lenses you will use because you will have to buy a specific M2 mount depending on whether you are using Canon, Nikon, Cooke, etc. The image in your LCD screen will be upside down unless you buy the $350 flip module. The M2 makes noise so you must use an external mic unless you sync separate audio in post. There is a motor inside 35mm adapters that vibrate or rotate to keep you from seeing the grain on the back plane - essentially you will be using the sanyo to film the image projected on a screen inside the adapter.
Also, 35mm adapters do not add resolution or color space because you are still shooting through the sanyo lens and onto the sanyo chip. You will still be limited by the data rate of each shooting mode. 35mm adapters are used primarily for changing the depth of field of the camera. You will need to use the camera in manual focus and manual exposure mode in order to use the M2. You will have to step through the focus on the sanyo until you are focused properly on the back plane of the M2, then use the SLR lenses for aperture control, focus, and zoom. The dynamic range of the image will remain the same unless you add filters to alter the light going into the sanyo, but regardless the sanyo can not capture more information than it does without the M2. For people interested in using 35mm adapters, I would recommend checking out cinevate's Brevis module. It's smaller and seems to cut less light (in some cases it even seems to add light). If anyone is interested in adding a 35mm adapter to their sanyo, I'm sure we'd all love to see the resulting footage. Maybe someone already has one for another camera and can try it out for us?

And for tvJohn, since a 35mm adapter really only changes the depth of field and in all other ways makes the camera more difficult to use, I would suggest getting wide angle and telephoto adapters to play with the depth of field for much less money and spend time in post changing the look rather than investing in an M2 rig.

EDIT: posted before I saw the rig. - I stand corrected on the impossibility of the situation (nice find uglybassplayer)- does anyone know the person that has used the HD1000 with the M2 that can post unprocessed footage so that the forum users can see what image is possible from the camera? (I recommend everyone download the unprocessed sample HD2 footage from Rev2010's post)
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 12:39 PM   #1094
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choavana wrote:
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Alright, I don't want to get into a flame war but you guys should do your homework. How about the fact that Andrea is not a woman as you keep suggesting.
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You are correct... Point taken.


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choavana wrote:
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Second, I guess you haven't used a Redrock micro or seen it used. It's HUGE! I don't know if it's technically impossible to use the camera with an M2...
Quote:

Yup, it is HUGE compared to the tiny Sanyo and YES, it is apparently possible (see the pic in above post).

Quote:
choavana wrote:
Quote:
Second, why would anyone pay $2000 dollars to mount an M2 on a $700 camera? People that use an M2 wouldn't want to be limited by the highly compressed codec and color space of the HD1000.
Quote:
Funny, I've said that same thing after looking some of the tricked out Canon HV20 rigs shown on HV20.com

I don't believe anyone here claimed it made sense, just that it was possible. My guess is that the Sanyo isn't the only camcorder in Andrea's arsenal and that the M2 wasn't purchased specifically for use with the HD1000. Perhaps he just wanted to see what the little Sanyo was capable of. Again I emphasize... it's just a tool. It may not be the best tool for the job, but that doesn't mean that it can't be used for that job.

So far, I see no evidence that supports that Andreamight have lied about using the Sanyo/Redrock for the video.

P.S. Here's a post (with pictures) on the Redrock Micro forums from someone else using an Xacti with an M2: http://www.redrockmicro.com/forum/vi...ight=sanyo+hd2 The madness has spread!
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 12:44 PM   #1095
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choavana wrote:
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I stand corrected on the impossibility of the situation (nice find uglybassplayer)- does anyone know the person that has used the HD1000 with the M2 that can post unprocessed footage so that the forum users can see what image is possible from the camera?
I think the HD2 footage with the M2 looks great, minus the dark beginning. Remember, it's a low quality Youtube video!But to be honest, even those filming with high-end cameras process their videos the majority of the time anyhow. Not only have you now found that the video does appear to have been filmed on the HD1000, whichyou said was impossible due to the HD1000's colorspace, but you also said it was likelynot possibleto use the M2 with it which you now also is possible.

I think the majority of people reading here already are aware they won't get pro quality quality such as in the music video right "out of the box". Heck, the camera doesn't even come with any real video editing software, and that's another few hundred bucks. Sure people that don't do their research first can get the wrong idea and think they'll get that out of box. For those it'll be a grand learning experience. But heck, 95% of the professional footage I see from pro cams won't generally be had "out of box". Most of the top notch vid's I see still at the very least use third party lenses that are upwards of $1500!

So, no matter what there's usually a ton more that goes into making a commerical video than just the camera.
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 1:04 PM   #1096
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choavana wrote:
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Andrea may, for whatever reason, have actually used the set up that he is suggesting. I still have my doubts, though I'm not doubting that he himself is the one that is putting the information out there. I am actually quite curious to see what real, unprocessed footage looks like from such a set up. So for anyone that wants to attempt it:

You will need step up rings to change the sanyo's 40.5 filter thread to 72mm. You will lose about a stop of light (and the sanyo's not great in low light already). You MUST buy the whole set up (i.e. the M2 is heavy and can not be used without some sort of rail support system). This will add about 3lbs to the camera weight. You will have to know what SLR lenses you will use because you will have to buy a specific M2 mount depending on whether you are using Canon, Nikon, Cooke, etc. The image in your LCD screen will be upside down unless you buy the $350 flip module. The M2 makes noise so you must use an external mic unless you sync separate audio in post. There is a motor inside 35mm adapters that vibrate or rotate to keep you from seeing the grain on the back plane - essentially you will be using the sanyo to film the image projected on a screen inside the adapter.
Also, 35mm adapters do not add resolution or color space because you are still shooting through the sanyo lens and onto the sanyo chip. You will still be limited by the data rate of each shooting mode. 35mm adapters are used primarily for changing the depth of field of the camera. You will need to use the camera in manual focus and manual exposure mode in order to use the M2. You will have to step through the focus on the sanyo until you are focused properly on the back plane of the M2, then use the SLR lenses for aperture control, focus, and zoom. The dynamic range of the image will remain the same unless you add filters to alter the light going into the sanyo, but regardless the sanyo can not capture more information than it does without the M2. For people interested in using 35mm adapters, I would recommend checking out cinevate's Brevis module. It's smaller and seems to cut less light (in some cases it even seems to add light). If anyone is interested in adding a 35mm adapter to their sanyo, I'm sure we'd all love to see the resulting footage. Maybe someone already has one for another camera and can try it out for us?

And for tvJohn, since a 35mm adapter really only changes the depth of field and in all other ways makes the camera more difficult to use, I would suggest getting wide angle and telephoto adapters to play with the depth of field for much less money and spend time in post changing the look rather than investing in an M2 rig.
Choavana, everything you stated above is absolutely true, but it is true for any camera at the end of a 35mm adapter, not just the Sanyo. I agree with you in that I don't see the point in getting something like an Xacti if you are going to negate the pocketability factor by using it in this fashion. but hey, to each their own. Maybe Andrea's just practicing in anticipation of Red's upcoming Scarlet :-)


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Old Apr 8, 2008, 3:54 PM   #1097
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choavana wrote:
...
So, when someone like John, who is potentially coming to the camera after seeing Andrea's stuff, is going to be really disappointed with his Sanyo - especially coming late to the forum and not seeing the average users footage.

....

You will need....

And for tvJohn, since a 35mm adapter really only changes the depth of field and in all other ways makes the camera more difficult to use, I would suggest getting wide angle and telephoto adapters to play with the depth of field for much less money and spend time in post changing the look rather than investing in an M2 rig. [/quote]

Choavana,

thanks for a very informative post!

It's clearly non-trivial to setup that Redrock kit for a HD1000, & we were indeed thinking that using some SLR lenses we can borrow would be nice, particularly for depth of field. It looks like it's much easier for wide angle to just buy an adapter & a not so expensive wide angle lens, so I suspect we'll end up doing that.

My friend & I are strictly amateur movie makers, & we don't really think we could match Andrea's impressive work, but I think I understand your perspective a bit better now - that in fact you're simply trying to help new users by not having their expectations raised too high!

Like you, I, & I'm sure many others, would like to see the original files, & how the whole thing was edited!

I've just downloaded the mp4 version of the Clarks, thanks. Youtube quality, even mp4, leaves something to be desired, but yes, it does also show what's possible. I haven't seen any text describing the filming of it yet, but I'll search later.

Rev2010, & uglybassplayer, thank you kindly for all your pointers & pic's, very interesting!

Also, Rev2010 "But, I'm pretty certain I could still¬*pull off a¬*nice music video with some¬*low cost¬*additional accessories, my video editing software, and a few plugins which seems like all tvjohn's friend would likely need." - That's exactly what we're looking to do, & he'll have the loan of my HD1000 (+ me probably) to help out!

I read in a previous post about the inverted picture, so I suppose that's one reason for turning the HD2 upside down on that mounting.

I think it's in many people's nature to get the best out of a limited budget item, & some people have time to experiment, whereas a bigger budget outfit probably doesn't have time, so it's faster to buy the necessary kit!

Hopefully, as we gain experience, we can contribute something to this excellent forum. Thanks to all contributors for passing on ideas & experience.
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Old Apr 9, 2008, 5:25 PM   #1098
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Rev2010 wrote:
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Big Pete, for someone to "steal" posts from here to put in their own forum I think that would violate the forums rules. It would also be incredibly lame. Don't ya think?
No I don't think it would be incredibly lame - on the contrary, I think it would be an almost surhuman feat to sort all the posts on this here forum into various indexed topics. Consequently, my suggestion was not entirely serious, of course.
If only someone would teach me to use the search function on this here forum efficiently...
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Old Apr 9, 2008, 5:35 PM   #1099
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I have finally also become the proud owner of a HD1000. However, a separate Xacti libary manual was on the list of items to be in the box, but in mine it was lacking. I googled for the manual but without luck.
I would appreciate comment(s) from those who have indeed found a separate Xacti libary manual in their box. In the simplified multilingual manual for the Xacti, there are two pages about the Xacti Libary(which I haven't read yet). Would they be expanatory enough or do I really need the information in the extra manual for the libary? In the latter case, I would very much like someone who might be willing to help me out to respond to my email box.
Thanks in advance.
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Old Apr 9, 2008, 8:12 PM   #1100
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Hehe, dude a link to it is on the very first post of this thread! But here's a direct link:

http://www.sanyo.de/produkte_daten/d...brary_EN_E.pdf


And congrats on your new HD1000! May you have a wonderful and rewarding time using it.
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