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Old Nov 8, 2007, 8:50 AM   #121
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Caelum wrote:
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Thanks very much IcelandFan and Taynt3d for the feedback, the first comparing the two. Not entirely a surprise, given the larger size, lensand price of the HD1000, but interesting to have confirmed that the 4MP stills are not onlyless noisythan the HD700's 7MP stills, but clearer (ArizonaVideo made atheoretical comment about this near the beginning of the HD1000 thread).
I look forward to more feedback from IcelandFan and Taynt3d comparing the HD1000 and HD700 as one who is expecting a delivery any day of my replacement HD700 and after reading up a bit more of the differences I am thinking maybe I should go for the HD1000 :roll: instead!

Although there are differences where HD1000 comes out on top, would you say that the HD700 is not a good camera or just that the HD1000 is a lot better? I know that the HD700 looks a slightly more compact camera but would it be worthwhile buying the HD1000 taking into consideration that it is £200 dearer?? I am a little confused.:? I am perhaps a little worried as i have only ever had a still camera - never had a camcorder (as I only have use of left hand I haven't been able to operate one) and would like to make the right choice. The fact that I am able to operate the HD700 one handed, and left hand at that (even though the monitor is on the left also)makes it very exciting for me.


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Old Nov 8, 2007, 10:49 AM   #122
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I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad on the HD700, it's still probably the best hybrid truely pocketable cam on the market in my opinion. It's core strength is size, just like the older models like the CG65 (which is even smaller). And no one should be buying these cams purely for video quality, if that's what you're after, you can buy an $800 HV20 these days that will make AMAZING videos, and it's quite small too, but not pocketable.

Personally, I buy these cams cause they're highly portable, discreet, and have a purely digital workflow (no tapes). I'm also willing to live with quality issues a little more because my main use is for online video, where they hold up pretty well. I also feel that when indoors, in very low light, that starts evening out the playing field with other types of camcorders a bit, and the differences become less.

That said, the one thing on image quality that constantly bothers me on both units is the lack of dynamic range. These cams, or maybe it's the codec, have a hard time with a wide dynamic range of light. It seems outside in bright/harsh conditions, you're almost always left with highlights totally blown out or shadows crushed to black with no detail. The better you get at manual overrides and whatnot, the better you can control it, but that's probably my biggest beef with both units.

At some point, one of us two-unit owners should hold the cams side-by-side and make some samples so you can see the same scene with both cameras at the same time. But, I haven't had time for that, and not sure where'd I upload the raw files anyway...
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Old Nov 8, 2007, 11:49 AM   #123
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Taynt3d wrote:
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I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad on the HD700, it's still probably the best hybrid truely pocketable cam on the market in my opinion. It's core strength is size, just like the older models like the CG65 (which is even smaller). And no one should be buying these cams purely for video quality, if that's what you're after, you can buy an $800 HV20 these days that will make AMAZING videos, and it's quite small too, but not pocketable.

Personally, I buy these cams cause they're highly portable, discreet, and have a purely digital workflow (no tapes). I'm also willing to live with quality issues a little more because my main use is for online video, where they hold up pretty well. I also feel that when indoors, in very low light, that starts evening out the playing field with other types of camcorders a bit, and the differences become less.

That said, the one thing on image quality that constantly bothers me on both units is the lack of dynamic range. These cams, or maybe it's the codec, have a hard time with a wide dynamic range of light. It seems outside in bright/harsh conditions, you're almost always left with highlights totally blown out or shadows crushed to black with no detail. The better you get at manual overrides and whatnot, the better you can control it, but that's probably my biggest beef with both units.

At some point, one of us two-unit owners should hold the cams side-by-side and make some samples so you can see the same scene with both cameras at the same time. But, I haven't had time for that, and not sure where'd I upload the raw files anyway...
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply Taynt3d, I do worry about buying something I know nothing about (as a first timer) and it is a considered purchase - I don't want to make a mistake in buying the wrong one! I do like the fact that it is a camcorder which is managable one handed and portable but would like to be happy that it is a quality product which I will get a lot of use and pleasure out of. Wouldn't like to think a month on ... wish I had spent a little more and got the HD1000! Sorry for rambling on ... very grateful for your opinion as one who has experience with it and knowledge.
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Old Nov 8, 2007, 10:56 PM   #124
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I was able to go out and shoot some video with both cameras today, in identical conditions, within literally seconds of one another. Here is what I found:

The HD 1000 is absolutely, positively ahead of the 700. Not even remotely close. Now, this being an HD 700 forum, please do not misunderstand me - I am not "bashing" the camera. In fact, I was very much hoping for an upset victory, since I like the ergonomics of the HD 700, not to mention the portability and the lower price. But there is just no way around saying that the HD 1000 comes out on top in every single aspect. :sad:

What I found: both cameras have less than broadcast definition HD, to put it mildly. I have digital TV and an HDTV and get stunning images from HD cable channels, particularly the Discovery Channel which is beyond words. You won't get that quality from either camera - nor, likely, from any of their direct consumer competitors. I'm guessing you probably have to spend at least 4 or 5k , and quite possibly many times that, to even just begin to scratch the level of image quality that you see the studios provide.

Both cameras have what I would refer to as edge artifacting - when I'm panning slowly, there is a flickering along the edges of straight vertical objects such as fence slats. It is far more pronounced on the HD 700. More alarming to me, considering I had both cameras on completely identical image settings ( EIS off, same ISO, same focus, same WB, first at "native" resolution and then at the HD 700's max resolution ) was a strong magenta color cast on the HD 700 movie, making itself felt particularly in shadow areas but also visible in bright sunlight. Everything looked way "warmer" than it should have been, without the images settings on either camera differeing from one another in any regard.

At native resolution, I was very much hoping Caelum would be right about not really noticing the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 42 inch or smaller screen ( I have a 42 inch LCD HDTV with an 8ms response rate, not the fastest but well within "good" range, never see any blur on sports programs ). Unfortunately, there was a fairly large difference, and I didn't even have to look real hard to notice it. The HD 700 fares much more poorly with panning than does the HD 1000, blurring objects that the HD 1000 keeps tack sharp. Details are less crisp and much softer and indistinct on the HD700. The exposure on both was fairly consistent and identical - in other words, the iris openedup /closed down at about the same rate under the same lighting conditions, as far as I could tell. Focus was also identical in bright light on both.

I could not replicate the humming noise I've heard described the HD 700 as having. Mine didn't seem to make any unusual noises.

The HD 700 has a tighter build quality. My HD 1000 screen is a bit soft in the detent, meaning it is more likely to require only a light touch before "sagging"; the detent on the HD700 was rock solid.

The overall excellent build quality of the HD 700 provides all the more reason to get bent out of shape about the ridiculous lens cap , which one has to pry off with one's fingernails or pull off with a fairly violent jerk of the cap-keeper cord. For those of you guys who have significant others with meticulously cared for fingernails - DO NOT buy this camera for her unless you want to have it fly at your head when she has just broken her third fingernail in as many days trying to open the darn thing. Really, what were they thinking? I thought the CG 65 cap was lame - this one is lame squared. And tripled. One of those things that becomes more annoying the longer you have it. OK, so if they couldn't put a electronic lens cap on it, why not a manually operated one, where you flick a lever and it closes, then flick it back and it opens again?

So, it is with great regret I am sending back the HD 700. I really, really, really wanted to keep it, but in terms of image quality you're getting so much more bang for your buck with the HD 1000 that it's just a far better bargain, even at the $ 200+ premium over the HD 700.





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Old Nov 9, 2007, 12:19 AM   #125
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IcelandFan wrote:
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[...]At native resolution, I was very much hoping Caelum would be right about not really noticing the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 42 inch or smaller screen[...]
Thanks very much for allof your personal experience feedback.

For the record, Iwrote "many claim you can't even tell the difference between 1080 and 720 resolutions on 42" and smaller TVs" and I was referring to what most users and videofilessayabout720 vs 1080 <= 42" HDTVs at a typical viewing distances (7-10',using similarHDTV source, i.e. HD-DVD/Blu-ray/XBox360/PS3). It really does seem to be a concensus out there... this has nothing to do with the cameras though.

(I didn't get the impression you had a 1080 42", would you mind mentioning what model Samsung it is?)
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Old Nov 9, 2007, 8:06 AM   #126
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IcelandFan, I'm very interested in your comparion of 720p and 1080i video on a full HD 42 inch LCD. Do you also mean 1080i of HD1000 also looks much better than 720p of HD1000? Do you play the videos directly with HD1000, or do you play them from a computer?

I compared 720p and 1080i from HD1000 using a computer with a monitor of 1650x1080 native resolution. I felt 720p is slightly (very slightly) better, or they are simply identical.
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Old Nov 9, 2007, 10:10 AM   #127
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OK - a couple of thoughts. First, Caelum, my apologies for the misquote. I hope it's clear that I think highly of you and that I included a reference to your "purported" statement simply as a way of introducing who brought the whole 1080/720 viewing issue ( or non-issue, depending on viewpoint ) to my attention in the first place.

Second, I do want to also re-emphasize something you mentioned. Everything I say and everything anyone else here says is PERSONAL experience and opinion, short of anyone coming up with a benchmark test that takes all variables under consideration. For example, Taynt3D has a completely different, and just as valid, perception of the ergonomics of the HD 1000 than I have ( I was in love with the feel of the HD700 ). And that is something there isn't aven a benchmark for!

Third, I screwed up. It's not a 42 inch TV, it's a 40 inch. I can't find the manual anyplace and Samsung doesn't put the model numbers up front. I'm not about to take the thing off the wall now after my first cup of coffee in the morning. Let me keep looking for the manual after I get back from work and I'll gladly disclose the model number. It is not a 1080p HDTV, that much I know. Those were starting to come out, just barely, when I bought mine 17 months ago. I wasn't about to throw that much money out. :-)

Having said that, I completely stand behind my observations that on MY screen, the 700's picture was inferior to the 1000, even when I recorded and played back at the same 720p/30 fps resolution. And, frankly, the 1000 isn't the cat's meow either. I find that HD does have drawbacks, one of them being that the resolution increase really seems to magnify, exponentially, every camera jiggle, every artifact, every imperfection in the picture - AND the monitor, for that matter. And even those of us who absolutely love Sanyo concede that if the form factor wasn't such a huge issue in their favor, image quality might just have us looking elsewhere. There's been quite a few folks in this and other threads who have said as much, if not in those words.

Part of it is probably also what we each, individually, find objectionable. As those of you who followed my posts know, I went bonkers about the artifact on my CG65's, both of which ended up going back. Some of the members agreed that it was bothersome, some of you were like " So what?? "

And here is the other issue - dongdongliushui brought this up, sort of: we are all looking at the cameras using different hardware and software. Dongdongliushui was looking at the footage with a monitor that had a much higher resolution than my TV does...and reports a different experience again, saying the HD 700 came out on top.
So, does that mean I'm wrong? Nope. It just means we have no standard. And even if all of us were in the same room looking at the same TV with the same hardware, we'd probably STILL not agree on every aspect.

When I wrote this up, I was doing so in the hopes of sharing some personal observations. So, please, don't take this in any other way. If anything, I hope that Sanyo trolls these forums and sees what we like and don't like about their designs. I think they make really cool cameras with a superb form factor, and the Sanyo library feature is a stroke of genius. But then they also go out and make ridiculous lens caps and dorky SD card covers and spotted lenses, so....

Finally, I wanted to say that this and the other Sanyo forums here are exceptional. I've never come across ANY forum where people are as polite, helpful and friendly as this one. That just struck me, especially after coming from a meeting at work where everyone was ready to leap over desks and strangle one another.


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Old Nov 9, 2007, 11:27 AM   #128
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It seems to me that some who have purchased the HD700 aren't entirely happy with it and a couple who had both HD700 and HD1000 have opted for the HD1000.

Is there anyone here who has purchased the HD700 are totally happy with it and are keeping it? PLEASE SEND YOUR THOUGHTS.

I notice on the HD1000 thread everyone seems to be over the moon with it .... could it be that sanyo have brought out two xacti HD cameras in a short space of time (the HD700 being most recent) and have not quite got it right? Or is it that we are all looking for perfection and really the HD700 is an exceptional camera?

Some say that the HD700 is a more pocketable camera, although to be honest the HD1000 isn't that much bigger, so there must be more to it.

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Old Nov 9, 2007, 1:11 PM   #129
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Look, people, this isn't really that hard.

For starters, NEITHER camera is going to produce anything as good as something like an HV20, which is essentially the same price as the HD1000. You simply don't buy these cams purely on video quality. If that is your main objective, get something else.

Next, personally, I wouldn't buy either for photos either. As a photographer, and someone who owns a bunch of DSLRs and point-n-shoots, the photos out of these cams are average at best. Get over it.

There's only one real reason to buy either cam in my opinion (and remember I said "my opinion" for anyone who's thinking about flaming me on this), and that is for the amazing portability of being able to record hours of video from the palm of your hand.

If you fit that need, and money is no object, and slightly better quality is more important than more pocketability, then go with the HD1000. If, on the other hand, money is tight and/or pocketability is slightly more important than image quality, then go with the HD700. The tradeoff in image quality will be worth it for anyone who wants the most pocketable solution, and the HD700 is probably better than anything else in it's class of tiny video cams. The HD1000 is big enough where it's "class" almost start being other AVCHD cams -- it's obviously on the small size against some of those types of cams, but it's not that much smaller, which is why I'd tend to compare it to those AVCHD cams as opposed to other p-n-s and hybrids.

A few caveats to that simplification are related to how important an external mic is to you (if it is, then go HD1000) and how important low light is to you (the f1.8 lens on the HD1000 helps a lot on that front). However, I feel the HD700 is as good as my CG65 was in low light, so let's keep some perspective on that.


Bottom line is if you're going to get all worked up about image quality, I'd seriously consider getting NEITHER of these cams. Go get an HV20 or maybe an AVCHD camera. On the other hand, if you want portable video that decent in your pocket, then you should consider buying one of these cams along the dimensions discussed above. Neither one is perfect, so don't expect them to be. I think the main problem is that folks buy these things with way bigger expectations than they should going in, and then they set themselves up for dissapointment, and IMHO, completely miss the whole point of these AWESOME units.
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Old Nov 9, 2007, 2:50 PM   #130
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Well I just got my brand new sanyo xacti hd700 (red) in the mail today, all in all Im quite stoked about using this lil gadget. One thing I wanted to run by any other hd700 owners:

Do you find that the display screen when in a closed state has considerable wiggle to it? (1 or 2 mm wiggle about)

I find the hinge itself is very tight otherwise, when you go to flip the display outward it is by no means loose. Part of me thinks this is not really a result of poor build quality, and prehaps its an intentional "give" designed into the hinge to prevent stressing the joint.

Got my 8 gig sd card and I'm ready to rock and roll. (60 bux through newegg)

Oh and one more tip for anyone looking to purchase the hd700 online, there are a handful of scam stores claiming the unit will sell for about 475 or so (which is completely insane). Be sure to do your research before you commit. I would totally recomend amazon as the best place to buy this cam as of today. About 560 shipped for any of the 3 colors. Plus a completely painless return process if one changes their mind!

Feel free to ask me any questions you may be wondering with reguard to the hd700 buddies.

oh and btw the 2 bad reviews on amazon are garbage, this forum is a much better source for info on these kinds of devices, youll see the review average climb over time trust me.
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