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Old Nov 15, 2007, 7:43 AM   #161
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Hi, Turk. Thanks. In my case, I have no choice but to buy online as neither the HD700 or 1000 is available in my country yet. I am sure I am not the only one who had been burnt buying on Ebay, but I thought it would be good to share and learn since there must be many people here who buy online. Something that Ebay can really do to help is to provide more space for feedback rating comments. I think the tiny field we have to leave comments in is so out of date, given the vast storage and web costs these days.
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 7:55 AM   #162
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Yep, thats another reason I bought online too. You could only get the HD1 up to a few weeks ago here and it was around 500euro which is slightly less than what I paid for my HD1000. I have not seen the CG65 anywhere at all which was my old cam but the C5 is still available on the street. It will be interesting to see what price the HD700 and HD1000 will be when or if they are available here....
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 8:39 AM   #163
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Hi TheTurk, I am living in HK, from where did you buy your HD1000? Online or you bought it personally in HK. I checked around the shops in HK, they are selling HD1000 at about HK$6600 with 8GB SD card, one extra 3rd party battery and a little carry bag. HD700 is selling at about HK$4300 with 2GB SD card. 'Broadway' is one of the biggest electronic shops in HK which has pretty good reputation.
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 9:11 AM   #164
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Taynt3D wrote:
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You're missing an important part of this though, and that's what are the comparables? Point-n-shoots? Aiptek? Others? Sanyo blows those away. The problem is when people compare a tiny portable video camera with larger more powerful cams. It's all relative. Sanyo's got nothing to hide quality-wise b/c their cams are as good or better than any other camera that's as portable.
Yes and no - in terms of missing an important point. Sure, you could say that I cannot make statements such as this without comparing the Sanyo to something else, and I agree with you that Sanyo blows away most digicams ( the movie output from my Canon 710IS is fairly close to the CG65, though ) and very likely also the Aiptek and Casio competitors, based on the video samples I have seen. But to be fair, I also don't know under what conditions those samples were taken, the skill level of who took them, if and how they were converted and uploaded, and so on and so forth.

I'm primarily looking at this from a price standpoint. For both the HD 700 and HD 1000, you're getting to the point where comparisons are made probably less on how they stack up against other models and more on " Is it worth it for me to spend that much money on something with this level of quality? " I for one did not compare the HD 1000 to anything else other than the HD 700, and I decided to keep it because the quality of the video, once I figured the camera out, was acceptable and sufficient for me considering the amount of money I had paid. In other words, I felt I was paying a fair price for what I was getting image-wise. Had that not been the case, even with favorable comparisons to models from other makers I would not have kept the camera. I don't care what others think about other camera brands. What I care about is my subjective experience of the camera that is in my hands and which I'm considering spending X amount of money for.

I'm reading Schafeman's comment to be similar to mine in that it wasn't a matter of comparison but a matter of simply not being comfortable with the cost/outcome balance. And while that can't really be benchmarked or objectively discussed because it varies from one person to another based on expectations, subjective experience, comfort level with technology, output display, income and too many other factors to list, it's as valid as any comparison-based model.

Sorry to go on and on, but short of my buying every camera there is, with my own money, and then returning all but the "winner", in a comparison-based model I would be essentially taking someone else's word for what they *think* about a given product, over my own subjective experience. Know what I mean?




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Old Nov 15, 2007, 9:20 AM   #165
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Grandmelody wrote:
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Question for Caelum and everybody who has the HD700:

Mine is made in Indonesia (printed on the box). Where is your HD700 made in?
Yes, made in Indonesia, and I have a SanyoNorth America box (USA / Canada).

re your eBay experience: sorry to hear about your experience. I personally don't transact on eBay because I don't like headaches;if I did, I would prepare myself for, at least,little glitches like that. Besides, youwill not be covered by a warranty when you buy offshore like that, so open or not, in the end you only have recourse with the eBay seller, and the vast majority will not honor any type of warranty beyond DOA.
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 9:44 AM   #166
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IcelandFan wrote:
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[...]I'm primarily looking at this from a price standpoint.[...]
You just made even more ofa point of having too high expectations...specifically based on price. A number of years ago you could have spent $10,000 ona video camera that was very large, required a giant spot light to take any footage indoors, and took video at a fraction the resolution and quality of today's cameraslike the HD700 and HD1000. Would you have expectedmore for your $10,000 back then? Maybe, maybe not, depends on how realistic you were about camera's capabilities back then.

Taynt3d's point is thatyou might buy the Xactis, that are unsurpassed in their size/performance category, yet have unrealistic expectations regarding not only size/performance but movie cameras,optics and sensorsin general simply because it's HD and you consider it expensive. To expect these to come close to the quality achieved with ($$$$) broadcast quality / movie cameras, that also record all of their material under ideal lighting conditions,is unrealistic.

Edit: having said all that I also think a lot of it has to do with handling, and I don't meanknowing how to exploit manual settings. Pros anchor their cameras on dollies, cranes, Steadycam harnesses, or at least a steady shoulder. With these tiny cameras I think it's all too easy to move them about too much and end up with a bad picture simply because of that (really not the cam's fault). I'm not targeting you specifically, but I've seen others shoot with my cams while waving them aboutcarelessly and the footage ishardly watchable (full of motion blur / or unsmooth in "Sports" mode). Learning tohandle these steadily and smoothly goes a very long way (and a tripod is always an option to get good footage).
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 10:06 AM   #167
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I've just upgraded from a CG65 which I use for making DVD for my clients to the HD700 and I'm very pleased with it.

I was thinking about the HD1000 first, but the size is too big to put in my pocket, which is exactly what I did with my CG65.

What's important as said before, is it's size, you have a good HD camera that you can put in your pocket, I film loads more when I have the camera with me instead of at home...

Some thoughts on the HD700:

-It's a bit taller than the CG65

-The remote is geat

-Watching photos on the TV is really fast with the remote and HDMI plug with my "not full" tv

-when you close the screen it stops filming

-It doesn't comme with an external battery charger, so you have to put it on the base to charge. (You have cheap external chergers on ebay)

It's a good buy for me.



Have fun mike
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 10:10 AM   #168
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syk2c11 wrote:
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Would someone please kind enough to post some sample video clips; indoor, normal fluorescent lighting, 10 seconds long would be good enough.
It's daytime here, and I don't have any night indoor footage without people I know (privacy paranoia :-)), but here's some full auto video inside a library with normal fluorescent lighting: http://mihd.net/1rdvzb. The camera is going to have more difficulty with sparse incandescent indoor lighting, where it will be grainier and darker, like with most cameras. Actually (and since I saw someone mention about only posting good video),here is the worst night time video (grain, focus issues) I was able to find in my footage, it was taken in full auto in a parking lot at night, and in this case, some manual intervention would be needed, at least fixing or lockingthe focus as the camera struggles with that: http://mihd.net/f5saw7

Otherwise, with enough lighting I get good footage even indoors, here (again all full auto) is indoors during the daytime with light only coming in the window:http://mihd.net/x5o49a And a follow up video peering into the darkest areas of the previous video (compare the two to see how dark these areas are): http://mihd.net/tl8n09
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 10:22 AM   #169
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IcelandFan wrote:
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Taynt3D wrote:
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You're missing an important part of this though, and that's what are the comparables? Point-n-shoots? Aiptek? Others? Sanyo blows those away. The problem is when people compare a tiny portable video camera with larger more powerful cams. It's all relative. Sanyo's got nothing to hide quality-wise b/c their cams are as good or better than any other camera that's as portable.
Yes and no - in terms of missing an important point. Sure, you could say that I cannot make statements such as this without comparing the Sanyo to something else, and I agree with you that Sanyo blows away most digicams ( the movie output from my Canon 710IS is fairly close to the CG65, though ) and very likely also the Aiptek and Casio competitors, based on the video samples I have seen. But to be fair, I also don't know under what conditions those samples were taken, the skill level of who took them, if and how they were converted and uploaded, and so on and so forth.

I'm primarily looking at this from a price standpoint. For both the HD 700 and HD 1000, you're getting to the point where comparisons are made probably less on how they stack up against other models and more on " Is it worth it for me to spend that much money on something with this level of quality? " I for one did not compare the HD 1000 to anything else other than the HD 700, and I decided to keep it because the quality of the video, once I figured the camera out, was acceptable and sufficient for me considering the amount of money I had paid. In other words, I felt I was paying a fair price for what I was getting image-wise. Had that not been the case, even with favorable comparisons to models from other makers I would not have kept the camera. I don't care what others think about other camera brands. What I care about is my subjective experience of the camera that is in my hands and which I'm considering spending X amount of money for.

I'm reading Schafeman's comment to be similar to mine in that it wasn't a matter of comparison but a matter of simply not being comfortable with the cost/outcome balance. And while that can't really be benchmarked or objectively discussed because it varies from one person to another based on expectations, subjective experience, comfort level with technology, output display, income and too many other factors to list, it's as valid as any comparison-based model.

Sorry to go on and on, but short of my buying every camera there is, with my own money, and then returning all but the "winner", in a comparison-based model I would be essentially taking someone else's word for what they *think* about a given product, over my own subjective experience. Know what I mean?



OK, but "is it worth it for me" is a whole lot different than "Sanyo should be ashamed." You should have said that the first time around because the Sanyos are worth it for a lot of folks, just maybe not for you.

Also, with respect to your canon and other p-n-s's, they almost all shoot mjpeg (I could be wrong on that as some are moving to MP4, but not many yet), which means the file sizes are like 10x or more larger. You're lucky to get 10-15 minutes of record time at 640x480 30fps (or less res or les fps). If that's a tradeoff worth making for you cool, but definately not for me. I can walk around with my HD1000/700 and shoot hours of video no problem.
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Old Nov 15, 2007, 11:12 AM   #170
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Nice samples. One question...when you say full auto, do you mean you have the switch on the LCD set to "Simple" or that you set all menu settings to "Auto"?
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