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Old Oct 23, 2007, 12:39 AM   #1
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Someone's comment about the ND filter on the older HD2 vs. not having one on the newer models got me thinking after reading the manuals...

For one, the manuals imply that the HD700 has a ND filter that is accessible through manual controls (Exposure Settings). While that language doesn't exist in that section of the HD1000 manual. Then that got me thinking that maybe it's because of the lenses. I mean the HD1000 stops down as far as f8 while the HD700 can only stop down to f4.7. So, it kind of makes sense that they had to include an ND on the HD700, but maybe it wasn't really needed on the HD1000. That would explain it I think, but not sure.

The one thing that is weird though is that there is a single reference to an ND filter in the lens specs section of the HD1000 manual. But it wouldn't surprise me if that slipped through the proof-reading of the manual just like the reference to the microphone adapter being listed in the HD700 manual (although I don't know, maybe the HD700 comes with that adapter, LOL, even though it can't be plugged into anything?).

Anyway, just sharing an observation on the ND front. Looks like you should be able to manually engage it on the HD700. But as far as I can tell you can't engage it on the HD1000, and I'm not even sure the HD1000 has one.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 1:19 AM   #2
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I can confirm that I can turn on/off ND filter on the HD700 in manual exposure, shutter and aperture priority modes.

They may have used the HD2 manual as a starting point since the HD1000's specs at the end also appear to have the HD2 dimensions as well as a mention of ND filter.
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Old Oct 26, 2007, 6:38 AM   #3
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hey Caelum,

Can you do a little test with the ND filter on your HD700?

If you get a really bright and sunny day over in Ottawa, can you take footage of an open scenery like a cityscape or street? One with the ND filter and one without... and see if the ND filter affects the acutance of the video?

I was filming some footage with the HD1000 today and it was really bright out. And some shots in really bright lights just look kinda not quite there in terms of focus. And in two files there were moments where brightness dropped by about two stops in a matter of two-three frames that makes me wonder if HD1000 does indeed have ND filter (just not user controlled).

If you see my sample thread, its in the 1080i daylight batch. The file where i started off with a closeup of a halloween bat and the file with the apartment building. In both files you can see a clear drop in brightness at some point that happens in split seconds. And especially the halloween bat file, its started off super sharp, but when the brightness dropped, it just didn't look the same as the start of the file. Same with the apartment file... compare the beginning and the end.
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Old Oct 26, 2007, 11:58 AM   #4
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Before you can really guess if there is or is not an ND in the HD1000 you have to make sure you know exactly where all of the other settings are. This is because of the wide range of ISOs and the much smaller aperture of f8 -- if you were in any sort of auto mode, the cam could have easily stopped down the lens to f8, which would look a lot like an ND filter was engaged. In fact, an HD700 would need something like an ND4 filter to even stop down as far as the HD1000 can without using any ND at all. So, I'd try going into full manual at f8 and some set shutter speed, and I'd also lock down the ISO, and THEN I'd try your scenario again. Under those conditions it shouldn't do anything on it's own except maybe engage an ND filter if it had one (doubtful).
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Old Oct 26, 2007, 12:04 PM   #5
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Hi ray301, I tried a couple quick video clips with ND filter on and off in full sunand I can'tfind anydifference between the two (I'll check/try again later). For stills, however, it does make a very clear difference on the exposure (f-stop reduction).Since the ND filter can only be turned on and off in aperture / shutter priority or full manual mode it seemsto me more appropriatefor stills shooting since with video it's very difficult to manually set an aperture or shutter that will be appropriate formore than a fixed shot.

Thanks very much for uploading all of those samples. I just tried downloading the 1080i 194MB one but unfortunatelyit aborted half way through so I'll have to try again later.
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Old Oct 26, 2007, 3:20 PM   #6
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Taynt3d wrote:
Quote:
Before you can really guess if there is or is not an ND in the HD1000 you have to make sure you know exactly where all of the other settings are. This is because of the wide range of ISOs and the much smaller aperture of f8 -- if you were in any sort of auto mode, the cam could have easily stopped down the lens to f8, which would look a lot like an ND filter was engaged. In fact, an HD700 would need something like an ND4 filter to even stop down as far as the HD1000 can without using any ND at all. So, I'd try going into full manual at f8 and some set shutter speed, and I'd also lock down the ISO, and THEN I'd try your scenario again. Under those conditions it shouldn't do anything on it's own except maybe engage an ND filter if it had one (doubtful).
yeah, i figure its either a ND filter causing softness or small apature to the point where diffraction started to show since it was really bright. But the recording screen doesn't really give all that much of useful info and i can't go back and read exif info on the file like jpegs (or can i?).

I was pleasantly surprised too that the screen was transflective under bright sun... it wasn't pitch black when directly exposed to sunlight. Not super, but at least i can make out roughly what's recording

The apature on HD1000 actually goes as small as f11 if you go to the 10x tele range.

And i think HD700 should have at least an f8 as well... 4.7 is just the widest it can open at the tele range, but there's no reason why it can't go smaller to f8.
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Old Oct 26, 2007, 3:21 PM   #7
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Caelum wrote:
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Hi ray301, I tried a couple quick video clips with ND filter on and off in full sunand I can'tfind anydifference between the two (I'll check/try again later). For stills, however, it does make a very clear difference on the exposure (f-stop reduction).Since the ND filter can only be turned on and off in aperture / shutter priority or full manual mode it seemsto me more appropriatefor stills shooting since with video it's very difficult to manually set an aperture or shutter that will be appropriate formore than a fixed shot.

Thanks very much for uploading all of those samples. I just tried downloading the 1080i 194MB one but unfortunatelyit aborted half way through so I'll have to try again later.
if you use firefox, the 'Downloadthemall" extension is great to have for downloading giant files... it lets you resume on sites like mihd.de
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