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Old Dec 9, 2007, 11:35 PM   #1
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Wal*Mart isclosing the CG6 out. Currently going for $199 which is pretty good. REg $299 in store and $275 @ walmart.com.

I bought one as an insurance policy if i decide the HD700 (terd color) is no good. 30 day return policy.

Cheers,

brian
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 10:33 AM   #2
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blegate,

I've recently purchased the hd700, and the low light performance leaves a lot to be desired. I was expecting the noise and general issues with such a small lense, but its focus hunts, even in moderate light in many instances. What I don't know is whether that is simply typical of the hd700 or of all xactis. I'd be interested in your experience with both, since I've seen a demonstration of the CG6 and its low light seemed to be pretty good.
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 10:34 AM   #3
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Edit: I should have said, "It focus hunts constantly. I've tried about every combination of focus modes/adjustments, and only turning off the autofucus (i.e. manual focus) does the trick."
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 11:03 PM   #4
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Yes I've read the reviews/complaints about the hd700. The $349 cost got to me and I couldn't resist. I had the chance to get one @ $299 but passed on it. I plan to do a mini comparison of both the hd700 and CG6, essentially shooting video footage with each camera at the same time (same settings). I'm going to post it on at Vimeo.com later in the week. It won't be a total apples to apples but what the heck. The main things I will be looking at:



1) good footage in day and typical indoor situations. I'll probably also shoot some video of Christmas lights, etc. around the neighborhood. I know one is HD and other SD but I'll be looking at picture/video quality, noise in low light, etc. Both digicams will be set to record on the highest quality. The output is what counts.



2) Focus speed- Essentially eye balling the speed it takes each camera to focus on an object (in various lighting conditions). Some complain about this; others don't.



3) Zoom Noiseof the hd700- some complain and others do not.



4) Editing in Vegas Pro 8. I've had a C40 for exactly one year and never had an issue editing video. The CG 6 has no issues. HD will be interesting.



At the end of the day the most important thing is will it take good photos/videos when I use it outside, indoors and during those school performances in the dark gyms.



If it fails then I'll return it to Amazon and keep the CG6. It it works then I'll keep it and return the CG6 to Wally World- love the return policy



Funny thing about the hd700. The brown HD700 is now $499 today. It's gone from $499 to $299 to $349 and back to $499 in like two weeks- very interesting marketing by Amazon. The Silver was $499 yesterday and is now $399. The red as stayed consisted $379 through the price shuffle in the last two days.



I wonder if they have some system pricing based on order fulfillment process and it's gone wacky.







Brian
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 8:41 AM   #5
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Thanks, blegate. I've now reviewed the hd700 footage on my tv, and I was pretty surprised how poor it's low light performance is once it's in its full glory. It looks OK in most cases on the camera's small LCD, but once on the large screen, it's considerably worse in terms of noise and distortion than the video from my best point and shoot camera (Canon S3 IS), which is mpeg-2, SD, of course.

I will be interested to hear your comparison of the CG6. I don't know whether the sensor or engine are different, but the hd700 has approximately the same low light performance when shooting in SD.
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Old Dec 11, 2007, 8:15 PM   #6
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I'll be especially interested in your comparison with the CG6, espeically in low light. I keep thinking that I'll upgrade my CG6, but it has given no problems.
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 2:39 AM   #7
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I have the CG6.5 also. I tested it wit LUX readings against 5 other cameras/camcorders and the low light performance was one of its best strengths. You need around 60 LUX for a nice picture.

I do wish the 700 would have had a 480x720 mode at the higher data rate. This would give lower noise in low light conditions. A 24P frame mode would also give lower noise and a pixel blending function in 720 modes, would also lower noise.

But in the end, a faster lens would be better than anything.

I love my GC65 and have lots of fine footage from inside (I like lots of light) and it works almost anywhere.

If the CG65 is not working well in low light, I would like to know what single CCD camera or camcorder would?

I here all these people saying that the 700 is bad in low light but never say how much LUX is in the room or which of there old camcorders worked better. A 40 LUX room and the camera at 400 ISO will be noisy. I lock at 200 ISO lots of time inside to prevent ISO hunting and the video is fine.


If anyone need good low light, low noise video the Canon HV 20 with its 24P mode is the one of the few single CCD camcorder that will perform well at 50 LUX in HD.

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Old Dec 12, 2007, 11:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
I here all these people saying that the 700 is bad in low light but never say how much LUX is in the room or which of there old camcorders worked better. A 40 LUX room and the camera at 400 ISO will be noisy. I lock at 200 ISO lots of time inside to prevent ISO hunting and the video is fine.
I have no old camcorder; the hd700 is my first. I've used up 'til now the video mode on my Canon S3 IS, which is pretty good by point and shoot camera standards, although it's SD and mpeg2. The S3 IS's quality in low light is OK, but it is significantly better than the dh700 in all respects. I know that a measurement and comparison by lux would be useful, but what I really am looking for is someone who has used the hd700 and either a CG6 or CG65 in the same indoor situations and can say whether the SD breatheren perform better.

If I were to be using the hd700 outdoors or in daylight most of the time, there's no doubt in my mind that I would be very happy with it. In those cases, it's really a remarkable little device.But the reality for me is that five days a week, I'm only around my baby insituations where I don't think thehd700is up toit. I believe that what has disappointed most folks who have tried the hd700s in low light and are disappointed with it (and I don't mean the knuckleheads on amazon reviews), is the precipitous drop in quality betweenwell-lit situations and less-than well-lit situations. The threshold between the two is sudden and deadly to quality.

I really do like the size and egonomics of the xacti, so the best case would be if either the CG6 or CG65 are notably better indoors. And for that matter, if someone has been able to do the same comparison between the hd700 and the hd100. (Actually, one poster, Mike Countryman,has, so I should say "if others have" been able to compare the two.)

Edit: IcelandFan also answered my question directly in another thread with respect to comparison to the hd1000. Sorry, I'm new to this process...
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Old Dec 12, 2007, 3:58 PM   #9
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DC Michael.

I share your concern as well. It's a shame they messed up on the low light. Having said that I do like the quality outdoors compared to my C40 even in SD mode since the h264 compression seems to make the video smoother. I really can't justify spending $700+ on the HD1000 at the moment, so as the HD700 dropped to $299 it will do for outdoor HD video.

It is a tough choice I have to admit since originally I also wanted the CG65 since the video is smoother and cleaner than my C40 (not that the C40 is poor) but at nearly $400 I felt it was a little bit more than I wanted to pay although I did eventually go for the HD700 for that price. It's only because they dropped it even further to $299 that it has changed my attitude towards it. In SD mode, in good light, the video looks to be the same as the CG65, but of course the fly in the ointment is that it deteriorates rapidly as the light level dimishes. It seems that extra 1MP really made all the difference in quality between the two.

Out of interest the S3 IS actually uses MJPEG and not MPEG 2 which is why the file sizes are huge. None of the Canon cameras currently use any other type of compression, even the TX1, which is what put a lot of people off that camera even though it is supposed to have very good image quality.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 12:30 AM   #10
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DC:

I have a S3 too (I feel like a brother:lol and the video can sometimes be great. If you filter it with a noise filter in TMPEG decoder and add a touch of sharpness it just may look better than the CG65.

In low light the GC65 kills it. it's not even that close.

It's too bad about the 700. I was thinking about upgrading too but I just hate cradles.

There is a way to improve the 700 but it would have to be firmware. A 24P shutter speed at a higher data rate so the compressor will make less noise with a lower rez would help.


You might like the zoom flash atachment I made for the S3.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=15

I love this mod for outside fill flash at 10 to 30 feet, and a diffuser for it.

[img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Blazer-1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Blazer-1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/img]http://www.jarods.com/sanyo/smalljarodbounce-card.jpg








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