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Old Jan 3, 2008, 12:26 AM   #1
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Hello All,

Does it make sense to purchase an HD1000 when we can get a canon HV10 for less price or an HV20 for about same?

I know those cams can't fit in your pocket, but neither can the HD1000 from what I've read. However, those cams have picture quality that is amongst the best ever.

So here are the facts (lowest prices for NEW) from ebay:

HD1000 = $635

HV10 = $530

HV20 = $650

These are the lowest prices auctions ended by. However, if you are willing to take a used HV10, the lowest was $389.

Not bashing the HD1000 or anything, just making a point as to whether it's worth the700 or so most places areasking for it, just because it's slightly more portable.

Points of views are welcome.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 3, 2008, 2:59 AM   #2
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I don't think its "just slightly" more pocketable. at nearly 1/2 the thickness of the HV20, its a whole lot more pocketable.

You may not want to put it in the pants pocket, but its much easier to carry it around with you all the time as I do in my winter jacket pocket or my tiny day pack.

I had pondered on the same question before I bought the HD1000, but since i've owned previous standard sized camcorder... I know i would really only pull it out once or twice a year if i had to deal with that kind of size. But with the HD1000, i have it with me pretty much all the time without looking like a tourist everywhere i go.

If image quality is your absolute top priority, then you've got the answer to your question. But if you want something with you all the time, then the HD1000 is worth your consideration.
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Old Jan 3, 2008, 4:24 AM   #3
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Ray has said it all, what your paying for is the size. OK the PQ is not the best but it's more than acceptable. You pay more for a laptop than a standard desktop pc but no seems to query that the hard drive is smaller and slower, slower cpu (fsb and cache), weaker graphics in general etc. This is the way I look at it, I went to the USA on holiday and didn't want to take a big camcorder as I was touring, and this was before I knew how far hybrids had progressed. I didn't take any film, now I regret this as my last encounter was with a 15fps vga hybrid a few years ago, if I had know how well they work now I would have got a camera on holiday. Oh well you learn by your mistakes, I'll just have to save up for another big holiday.
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Old Jan 4, 2008, 2:49 AM   #4
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Yep, same opinion here. I think people forget the value of portability.

I happily sold off my Panasonic PVGS500 which is the same size as the HV20 because it was only occasionally used. The HD1000 goes in one jacket pocket and my cell phone in the other - almost always with me - ready to capture family moments that were previously missed because I didn't want a separate gadget bag with me.
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Old Jan 4, 2008, 2:49 PM   #5
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herbs wrote:
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Ray has said it all, what your paying for is the size. OK the PQ is not the best but it's more than acceptable. You pay more for a laptop than a standard desktop pc but no seems to query that the hard drive is smaller and slower, slower cpu (fsb and cache), weaker graphics in general etc. This is the way I look at it, I went to the USA on holiday and didn't want to take a big camcorder as I was touring, and this was before I knew how far hybrids had progressed. I didn't take any film, now I regret this as my last encounter was with a 15fps vga hybrid a few years ago, if I had know how well they work now I would have got a camera on holiday. Oh well you learn by your mistakes, I'll just have to save up for another big holiday.
I think your laptop analogy is a good one. People forget that you always pay a premium for a device that is reduced in size yet with less performance and/or functionality. Mobile phones are another classic one. The RAZR was $500 when it came out and even then the functionality wasn't anything remarkable. Yet when it comes to camcorders, they then still expect the device to perform the same as a device with the same cost but without the size cost premium (thus allowing for better performance etc). A certain camcorder website is always slamming these solid state camcorders and comparing them to similar cost regular camcorders.

Since we know that small sizes always increases the cost we then have to look at whether that size will allow us to get more value out of the device. By this I mean, since it's more convenient we will use it more which hopefully will make up for the attached cost premium. Sure they may not have the best picture, but is the picture GOOD ENOUGH? For most of us on this forum, it is generally yes. We forget that even the poorest camcorders today are often still better than those of a good many years back.

I always say that if you pay a lot for a device and use it a lot then it's money well spent even if you may have overpaid. A device that is a bargain and costs very little can be thought of as a huge waste of money if it spends it's time gathering dust. Of course most of us don't have huge amounts of money to spend on the very best so we compromise.

This is one of the reasons I still haven't bought a Digital SLR camera even though I had a basic film one. I make do with a decent compact camera since it's something that both myself and my wife can use without much thought. Most of the time, I have found that I just don't need an SLR.

Always be honest with yourself. We all want the $10,000 camera for $500 that fits in our pocket but that's not happening so we either buy a premium camera that may never get used much or we buy a lesser device that may cost a little more, but which does get used.
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 8:45 AM   #6
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The main complaint on the camera seems to be low light video and focus hunting in low light~ yes it does hunt a bit in low light but not anymore than a typical camcorder. It's easy to lock AF and the video will be rock steady- see here for an indoor clip recorded at 60 FPS and it doesn't struggle for light!!!!
http://www.stevenunez.com/hosted/bikerear.mov

The biggest drawbacks are:
1. no exposure lock, you'll have to go full manual to keep exposure at a steady lock.
2. no info on screen, even my inexpensive Aiptek Go-HD has a histogram!
3. IS isn't too effective- best results are with a tripod.

The biggest benefits are:
1. Compact size will have you touting an HD cam everywhere!
2. Good video quality when tripod mounted and IS off.
3. Excellent codec choice- NOT avchd which means you CAN edit the footage straight from the camera in many popular editing software programs!!!
4. Superb LCD screen and easy menu structure- you wont need the owner's manual for the cam.
5. Very good build quality- has a semi-pro feel/look to it- not plasticky.
6. Easy to dock, charge, transfer files etc- good Library function for automated transfers to USB drive without a computer!
7. Very good lens- minimal CA or flare- better lens than some expensive camcorders! It's 40.5mm threading also allows for many attachments.
8. 60 Frames Per Second shooting, not many cams can do this- produces very smooth video!!!!!
Just an overall pleasure to use......if it had a manual focus ring and exposure lock as well as better image stabilization- it'd be nearly perfect!
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Old Jan 7, 2008, 1:07 PM   #7
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I own both an HV20 and an HD1000.

Although the HD1000 is much bigger than the HD700, you can in fact stuff it in a pocket. A tight women's jean pocket, maybe not, a baggy jeans pocket, yes, and a cargo pants pocket, without question. When it comes to the HV20, it won't fit in ANY pocket. So, make no mistake, there will be many occasions you'd bring the HD1000 where you wouldn't bother with the HV20. HD1000, just throw it in your jacket pocket, with the HV20, you need to bring a camera bag. That's the bottom line.

That said, the HV20 produces video quality that ABSOLUTELY BLOWS AWAY the HD1000 footage hands down, no doubt about it, no arguing. It plain and simply kicks bottom over the HD1000 in image quality -- there is no comparison in my honest opinion. It might come close on a static object using a tripod when there's not much dynamic range in the lighting and you've manually focused the HD1000, other than that, HV20 takes it no problem.

So, in there lays the dilema. Portability vs. image quality at the same price point. I would fundamentally make the decision based on those two factors. Decide what's more important to you, then go with that model. There will be plenty of other pros/cons on both sides, but that's the fundamental factor you need to decide on personally.
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Old Jan 7, 2008, 3:18 PM   #8
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Taynt3d hit it right on the head- with the Xacti you get decent image quality at HD res with very good portability leading in many moments captured. Whereas the larger camcorders such as HV20 etc produce superior video at the expense of portability and tape capture.......HDV is still the ruler.

Canon's new Vixia line as well as Samsung's & Panasonic's new cams will likely surpass the quality of Xacti footage but will cost more.......

.......choices for all~~~~~
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Old Jan 7, 2008, 7:46 PM   #9
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I'm also curious as to how Sanyo will respond with pricing. The HD1000 is small, but it is dangerously close to being a "real, full size" camcorder (i.e. non-hybrid) product. The new Panasonic looks to be the biggest threat to the HD1000 size wise, with the HDC-SD9 even smaller than the last version and a MSRP of only $799. The new Samsung looks tiny too, but we don't know pricing on that yet. I think Sanyo will have to fight on price if the size advantage is gone and the more traditional camcorder makers having arguably better picture quality.

Also, you guys must have bigger pocket pants, but there is no way the HD1000 fits in mine comfortably! The lens portion especially. The HD700 is definitely more pocketable, but I still wouldn't keep it there daily. Sanyo needs to find a way to get the HD1000 into a HD700 form factor! That would be ultimate.
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Old Jan 7, 2008, 7:58 PM   #10
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At $679 I think it's relatively competitively priced- I doubt it would drop much lower than that.

The new Canons, Panasonics and Samsungs will likely shoot better- but those are AVCHD cams and you'll run into editing problems until it's (AVCHD) universally adopted by the NLE packages- you'll also need a very powerful computer with lots of ram to edit the files natively- so for now the Xacti has a special niche it fills perfectly no other camera can claim....drag and drop editing of files- and ease of use!
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