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Old Apr 28, 2008, 6:06 AM   #1
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Hello, I would like to get somefootagefiles straight coming from the newest Sanyo 720p machines, at 30fps and at 60fps.

Please tell me where I can downloadthese. Unedited. Genuine.

You, HD specialists, you should know that uploading a file on a video website like DailyMotion or YouTube, even advertized as HD, always results in the file being re-sampled and re-processed by the website. Do you really think those HD video websites are going to enable tons of users viewingvideo filesat 9 Mbit/s when 720p 30fps and 12Mbit/s when 720p 60fps ? Think a little bit.Please stop using DailyMotion and YouTubefor assessing the quality of a digital camcorder.

You need to upload big files, then make them available to anybody. Please consider usingthis upload system (it is free) :

http://www.megaupload.com/en/

Now you should be able to download the famous Sanyo Xacti HD1000footage, made some time ago using six pre-production HD1000 units :

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W1O7XZ8L

Now it is you turn to continue. Please tryuploading decent files 0) in FOCUS 1) NOT in the dark 2) NOT handheld 3)preferably using a tripod and 4)containing some MOVINGparts like cars or kids and 5) at the end, add some slow speed PANNING

The duration of such test is about 1 minuteof video ... yes, this will eat megabytes .... that sould not be a problem now ... becauseyou know MegaUpload ... and it is free.

By the way, all those comparisons are only meaning something if one can show the difference between different systems in place like :

- the 720p 16:9 video at 30 fpscoming from a Canon HV30 (1/2.7 inch sensor -3 megapixel gross)

- 720p 16:9 video at 60fpscoming froma Sanyo Xacti (1/2.5 inchsensor)

-720p 16:9 video at 30fps coming froma Sanyo Xacti (1/2.5 inchsensor)

-SD 16:9video from Canon MV235 or ZR930 (1/6inch sensor -1.07 Megapixel gross)

Any contribution welcome ! It is all up to you, now.

Steph


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Old May 8, 2008, 12:09 AM   #2
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Some sample unedited HD video collection for you

http://rapidshare.com/users/99XZ6Y
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Old May 8, 2008, 7:24 AM   #3
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Hello myhd1000,

Many thanks for your post. I've downloaded all the files. Quality is amazing for such little machine. I think I'll buy one. Price here in Europe is 655 eur now. Looks like a bargain.

I will need to buy a newPC, as mine is anold P4 dualthread at 2.8 Ghz fitted with a nVidia 6200 AGP8x graphic card. Usingsuch old hardware,even the 720p30fpsdon't getperfectly smooth rendered. Screen is a 32ch 1366x768 LCD on VGA.

What videoediting softwareis advisable ? I am looking for a simple package, like Windows Movie Maker, but supporting the native H264-MP4 format without needing to import, decode, process andreencode all the frames. Basically what I am intending to do is to cut and paste scenes, without adding effects, so the onlyprocessing that is needed is to fade out,fade in, and merge. I don't want finding myself busy in trying to import the H264-MP4 format using 20 different profiles, let the program work using an internal proprietary format, and save the compiled movieusing 20 different possible profiles, all resulting in a quality loss because of the import, decoding, processing and re-encoding.

I have used Ulead Video Studio 11 Plus. It allows you to import the HD1000 video, then merge the sequences, but when you save the resulting movie, if you select the format "as the project" it gves you re-sampled low quality video at 50fps (!) and if you then try to locate a profile that is identical to the one of the source, you won't find it. And I bet that even if you find one, more or less equal to what you have at the source,therewill be a full decoding then re-encoding with a loss, instead of only touching the transitions.So stupid ! Can somebody advise me ?

I have used Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8.0. It allowsyou to import the HD1000 video, then merge the sequences, but when you save the resulting movie, you need to select a format (.avi, .mov, ...) and a profile, but there are no pre-programmed profiles offering more than 3Mbit/s quality so you need to design your custom profile. There is a WMV9 format available, soif you definea custom profile with 192 Kbit/s 44Khz stereo sound and1280x720 video at 30 fps, say 12 Mbit/s as target bitrate, you can setup that profile but you can't use it becauseSony Vegas Movie Studio 8.0is then issuing a fatal warning saying he can't deliver bigger than 1440x1080 output ... that fatal warning shouldn't be there as one is only asking a 1280x720 output. So, untill now, for unclear reasons, maybe a bug, Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8.0 is not useable.
But I've check what's happening whendefining a WMV9 custom profile with 192 Kbit/s 44Khz stereo sound and640x480 video at 30 fps, and12 Mbit/s as target bitrate. Then you don't get the fatal warning.And believe me or not, I get a WM9 480p video at 30fps with excellent sound and also 16:9 aspect ratio. Maybe the pixels are not square anymore explainingthe 16:9 aspect ratio. Must say the quality, even at 12Mbit/s, is *maybe* a little bit better than 3-CCD 1/6 inch digicams like Panasonic much appreciated GS320 and the newest GS330. But this is not HD anymore.There is another curiosity : even when viewed on a 16:9 display, you can't view the video in full screen. Actually,when viewing the video in full screen, you get black borderson all sides : top, bottom, left, right. Bothwhen viewing itusing Windows Media Player and SMPLayer. This is ridiculous and in such conditions nobody is going to pay the extra money for a HD1000, if this is the only way to get a compiled movie from it.

Here is the edited file using Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8.0 :

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GM153B2S

Actualy, this is genuine 720p 30fps footage supplied by myhd1000 (see post below) thenedited by me using Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8.0, and saved using aa WMV9 480p30fps 12Mbit.s format/profile. Just because to me, at the moment, itseems not possible to save using a H264-MP4 720p30fps 12Mbit/s format/profile.
You will recognizethe CuteMonkey scene followed by the FromBoat scene.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DI2GRIJG

This is another file including some text panels explaining the issues.
This time using slightly different settings, very curiously we get a different format, documented as 720x480 (that is going to confuse many people) but not 720p (1280x720) nor viewable in full screen.

If somebody can explain to me,using Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8.0, how to savethe compiled movie using 1280x720p 30fpssettings,with quality stereo sound at 44KHz 192 Kbit/s ; so generating a 720p 30fps H264-MP4 or WMV9 high quality video file at12 Mbit/s, viewable in full screen using a 16:9screen without getting infamous black borders, that would be fantastic.

I've just triedWindows Movie Maker.I getblocked at the import stage. Windows Movie Maker can't even load the H264-MP4 files coming from the HD1000.

So my question remains : what videoediting softwareis advisable ? If none is currently available, or not within the range of 49-149 dollars,I will delay my purchase.

Any feedback or recommendationwelcome.

Thanks again,
Steph


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Old May 8, 2008, 7:45 AM   #4
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steph_tsf wrote:
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So my question remains : what videoediting softwareis advisable ? If none is currently available, or not within the range of 49-149 dollars,I will delay my purchase.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiope

It's selling for $89 on Amazon. You can download the trial from the page I linked to.



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Old May 8, 2008, 8:24 AM   #5
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Hi Rev2010,

Sony Vegas attracted my attention, I've just finished using it ... but there is a glitch. See in my updated post just above. I geta fatal warning saying Vegas can't deliverbigger than 1440x1080 output formats, even when asking a 1280x720 format.

By the way, is it normal that I need to create a custom WMV9 profile in Vegas in order to obtain HD profiles and parameters ? Isn't there a 720p H264-MP4 format/container,ready to use ? I remain perplex.

Any help welcome.
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Old May 8, 2008, 9:47 AM   #6
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Rev2010 wrote:
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steph_tsf wrote:
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So my question remains : what videoediting softwareis advisable ? If none is currently available, or not within the range of 49-149 dollars,I will delay my purchase.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiope

It's selling for $89 on Amazon. You can download the trial from the page I linked to.



Rev.
Not only that, but there's a $30 mail in rebate avaible for it as well.

Also, if you're interested in the Vegas Pro 8, I recently purchased Pro 8 from the following seller brand new, unopened for $389.99.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sal...lot_id=7466915
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Old May 8, 2008, 10:17 AM   #7
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steph_tsf wrote:
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Sony Vegas attracted my attention, I've just finished using it ... but there is a glitch. See in my updated post just above. I geta fatal warning saying Vegas can't deliverbigger than 1440x1080 output formats, even when asking a 1280x720 format.
Well, I'm using the Pro 8 version so I can't say for sure but even in the pro version I had to create my own custom project profile. Another forum member PM'd me not too long ago asking for my settings. I'll postmy responsehere:

I edit simple stuff in camera but everything else is done in Vegas. I re-render using MainConcept's AVC/AAC codec which is the closest to Sanyo's. Below are my settings:

Under Project Settings make sure to choose 8bit Pixel Format! - much faster and looks the same


You have to choose custom frame size and set to 1920 x 1080.

Profile is Main.

Frame Rate is 29.970 for USA

Lower Field first usually but it depends on your clip. You can check by looking at the properties of the clip in Vegas to see if it's Lower or Upper Field first.

Pixel Aspect is 1.00

Do Not Use Deblocking Filter - except for bitrates below original

Render as Best Quality - almost same rendering speed and looks better

The bitrate is up to you. But, to get identical quality I you need to use a higher bitrate - something like 16 or 18mbps, I don't recall exactly.


The above settings have worked perfectly for me. I have no problem editing and re-encoding 1920x1080 or 1280x720 60p footage in Vegas Pro 8. Movie Studio might be different, I'm not sure. Try downloading the trial of Pro 8 and use these settings. After inputting them you can save it as a custom "template" which makes life a whole lot easier. I tried to see if there was a way to export a custom template, so I could simply e-mail mine to people, but couldn't find a way to do it. Anyhow, let me know if this helps at all.



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Old May 8, 2008, 11:32 AM   #8
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NICE Rev,

this was going to be my next question to you or the forum once I had some time to sit down with Vegas...thanks for posting this info!
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Old May 8, 2008, 11:54 AM   #9
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Heh, no problem Stephman! Actually, thank you for posting the video of the hatched Robin's on Vimeo. After seeing the eggs I was curious to see if they all hatched ok :-)



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Old May 8, 2008, 2:58 PM   #10
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Hello rev2010,

myhd1000 has provided the ideal HD1000 720p30fps genuine footage :
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LM99COPG

Here are my conclusions. Sony Vegas, even in Pro version at 526.95 eur, seems tolimit the outputformat to a strange 1440x1080 format which isnot the good full HD 1920x1080 format.I think it is however possible tofake a 16:9 1920x1080 format using a 1440x1080 format with non square pixels.

But let us start from the beginning.I got started using Sony Vegas 8.0 at 34.95 eur, their cheapest version. The conclusion is that Sony has put limitations in it, not enabling you to save anything bigger than 720x480, so this is SD in 16:9, nothing better.There is no MP4 codec for the output generation. You may use a WMV9, tweak the default profile for getting a fastersound bitrate and a better video bitrate, but ifyouattempt saving using1280x720, in anycodec orcontainer, you'll get the"standard" fatal warningthat you are exeeding the maximum format of 1440x1080, asSonyhasnotproperly reprogrammed the "standard" message.
Therefore the best setting inSony Vegas 8.0 at 34.95 eur, is a WMV9 at 720x480, using 192 Kbit/s audio and about 12Mbit/s video, that gets displayed as "nearly fullscreen" if you were lucky with the myriad of parameters.
This is nearly okayfor rendering high-end Standard Resolution 3-CCD 1/6 inch DV camcorders like Panasonic ones (they are not expensive),but this is definitively unappropriate ifyou have native HD 720p30fps footage as source.
The resulting WMV9 video is here : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DI2GRIJG

So let's find out the next version, Platinum.

I've just downloaded Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8.0 at 59.95 eur. There we get something more useable. But there are still trickylimitations as you cannot get a 1280x720 format using all available codecs and containers. AnMP4 container is there, indeed, but you can't modify nor create aHD profile. All what you get is some kind of iPod compatibility.Of course we still have the WMV9, and there, this time, if we dig into the profiles and theparameters, we have more choice. We can select a 1280x720 size, we can select very good audio like 192Kbit/s, and we can select a constant bit rate for the video, two pass encoding, at 12Mbit/s plus some otherchoices less obvious. Thenwe canname and save the profile, forreusing it in all subsequent productions. Much appreciated.
- I am happy with the quality. The outputresolution can be asserted when viewing the film at 0:0:47, where you'll see a navigation plate (no parking ?) in the middle of the screen. And you can compare with the original footage, unedited, unprocessed.
- This time themovie doesplay in real fullscreen, as it fills the entire 16:9 screen
- Butthe text templates generated usingSony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8.0 are too narrow. They don't fill the entire horizontal space. This gives your moviea nasty amateur & unfinished touch.
- A good surprise is that theWMV9 movie delivered by Sony Vegas,is less demanding for the PC that is playing it. On my old Pentium 4, 2.8 GHz dualthread, the genuine H264 720p footage gets some hiccupswith the CPUbeing used at more than 65% with one half of the CPU being totally loaded.Whilewhen reading the WMV9 file, the load is better balanced, with a total load of about 60%. So one can conclude that the WMV9 is better using the dualthread processor.
The resulting WMV9 video is here :http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KW6UPUSX

I have not used Sony Vegas Movie Studio Pro 8.0at 526.95 eur because I don't intend spending so much money. But of course, from what I am understanding,over there one can really use theMP4 container this time,creating a HD-specificprofile and save it. But I'm not sure the result will be significantly better than using a WMV9. Of course, a benefit is thatthere isno more X264 -> WMV9conversion, so the genuine X264-MP4 footage may beless degraded, plus the advantage maybe of a faster moviecompilation ?



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