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Old Feb 4, 2009, 10:39 AM   #1
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Hi all. Looking around online I've found some reviews and such of the HD2000 that list a MSRP of $599 or $549. Is this really true? Cause I mean... man if it really is $599 or so I think I will upgrade from the HD1000 for the 60p and 8mp photos. That price would definitely be reasonable. An $800 price tagwould not!

So, has anyone else come across such info that indicates a retail price of around $599?



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Old Feb 4, 2009, 11:48 AM   #2
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Apparently that is correct, you'll maybe get it for less than $500 imo in the current climate and am expecting it quickly at the 399(350) price in the UK.

The panasonic sd20 will be as good imo, but with only 60i and 24p options and no mic input o/p. But we'll need to wait and see, but that can be had for £450, so its against that the sanyo will be competing, both 16x optical and the panasonic with an is lense, so will be alot steadier and more fluid hopefully. For me the mic input is a nice to have but I'll never use it!
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Old Feb 4, 2009, 12:13 PM   #3
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Well, even without OIS at a $599 or lower price for me the 1080/60P can't be beat! I've always loved the fluidity of the motion at 720/60P on my HD1000 and to think about having that look at 1080 is awesome. And of course, the 8mp photos.



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Old Feb 4, 2009, 12:29 PM   #4
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Yes, agreed its a good hybrid it delivers, the 1080p/60 will be difficult for pc's though imo. I can't honestly see many laptops handling it that well, so it'll be from that perspective it may fall-down. The 24p from the panasonic is an interesting option, again for small cost. The 24p renders images in a completely different way, more towards the cinematic effect. For me this is more important than the stills and the 60p, 1080i can be converted easily to 720p/60 which is good enough. the 24p is not so easy to create and the is lense should not be underestimated on 16x(700mm lenses).

I'm on the panasonic at the moment for many reasons incl the 5.1 surround/zoom mic built in.

Brief review of the sister cam the tm20 with built-in 16gb, tm means twin media! notice how light these cameras are as well! plus the nice lens cap

http://www.simplydv.co.uk/reviews/ca...20-review.html
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 4:52 AM   #5
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[email protected] runs fine on my pc. Laptops......alienware?
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 11:21 AM   #6
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Adventsam wrote:
Quote:
Yes, agreed its a good hybrid it delivers, the 1080p/60 will be difficult for pc's though imo.
Not at all. 1080/60p will run fine on all my PC's which are dual and quad-core. They'll also run fine on the Sony PS3 which is what I'd been storing and watchingmy vacation videos on up till now. And laptops, should be fine too... but regardless... I'm not watching my vacation vids on a laptop

Adventsam wrote:
Quote:
The 24p from the panasonic is an interesting option, again for small cost. The 24p renders images in a completely different way, more towards the cinematic effect
Are you even sure it renders true 24p?? Even the venerable Canon models don't do true 24p, they use pulldown. And while 24p is nice for people that want to try their hand at amateur filmmaking it would only serve to worsen my vacation videos being at a lower frame rate.

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1080i can be converted easily to 720p/60 which is good enough.
No it can't. 1080/60i is still only 30 full frames per second. You can't transfer that to 60p as the extra frames justaren't there. You can convert 60i to 30p but it looks worse as you have to use interpolation.

As I said, I'm using my cam for vacation videos. 60fps just looks so much more lifelike than 30p. It also captures motion better and a lot of times I've gone into the 720/60p mode on my HD1000 for that very reason. We were on a catamaran one time in Hawaii when dophins came swimming along the boat. Moments like that the 60p truly shines. But if I had 1080/60p I would just shoot everything in that mode! :G



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Old Feb 5, 2009, 6:36 PM   #7
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Rev2010 wrote:
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Adventsam wrote:
Quote:
Yes, agreed its a good hybrid it delivers, the 1080p/60 will be difficult for pc's though imo.
Quote:
Not at all. 1080/60p will run fine on all my PC's which are dual and quad-core. They'll also run fine on the Sony PS3 which is what I'd been storing and watchingmy vacation videos on up till now. And laptops, should be fine too... but regardless... I'm not watching my vacation vids on a laptop
Quote:
No, neither is anybody else but 60p runs fine, how do you know what is currently available at 1080p?

Adventsam wrote:
Quote:
The 24p from the panasonic is an interesting option, again for small cost. The 24p renders images in a completely different way, more towards the cinematic effect
Quote:
Are you even sure it renders true 24p?? Even the venerable Canon models don't do true 24p, they use pulldown. And while 24p is nice for people that want to try their hand at amateur filmmaking it would only serve to worsen my vacation videos being at a lower frame rate.
Quote:
Fake or otherwise its better than trying to create it?

Adventsam wrote:
Quote:
1080i can be converted easily to 720p/60 which is good enough.
Quote:

No it can't. 1080/60i is still only 30 full frames per second. You can't transfer that to 60p as the extra frames justaren't there. You can convert 60i to 30p but it looks worse as you have to use interpolation.

As I said, I'm using my cam for vacation videos. 60fps just looks so much more lifelike than 30p. It also captures motion better and a lot of times I've gone into the 720/60p mode on my HD1000 for that very reason. We were on a catamaran one time in Hawaii when dophins came swimming along the boat. Moments like that the 60p truly shines. But if I had 1080/60p I would just shoot everything in that mode! :G



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Do a search I think you'll find you can!, 1080/60p is too much imo, to processor demanding and the lack of ois may make the whole thing unwatchable unless its on a tripod, we'll see, I really want it to be good too!
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 7:24 PM   #8
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Adventsam wrote:
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Do a search I think you'll find you can!, 1080/60p is too much imo, to processor demanding and the lack of ois may make the whole thing unwatchable unless its on a tripod, we'll see, I really want it to be good too!
I don't need to do a search. 60i is 60 interlaced fields, each half of a picture at 1/60th a second. If you count putting two fields together, which would make one full frame of video, you'll see it's only technically equivalent to 30 frames per second. Sure you can make a 60 FPS video by duplicating each frame but that's stupid, there's no point whatsoever to doing that cause you're not adding anynew information.

And since you asked,I knowplayback works fine at much higher frame rates, in full HD, because I'vedownloaded sample footage from the RED cameras which are professional cameras that do MUCH higher frame rates than 60fps.

Anyone with a decent dual-core PC can play 1920x1080 video at 60fps. If your computer can't handle it then your computer is a mess and needs tweaking and cleanup, or you have a virus or stuff running that shouldn't be. I'm an IT Technician for a living and am also a musician that writes, records, mixes, and masters music on my Dual-Core AMD X2 5200+. I use tons of CPU eating software synthesizers and effects that tax the CPU much greater than video playback with no problem. And my general internet/video editingPC is an Intel Q6600 Quad-Core.

Contrary to what most might think HDvideo *playback*, even at high framerates, is not something that requires a top of the line computer. Most people don't optimize their PC's and let ahundred apps startup and run in the background. Somejust have crappy codecs installed. Look at the difference between HD playback through Quicktime and Windows Media Player Classic with the proper codecs installed. Quicktime sucks tremendously by comparison!



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Old Feb 6, 2009, 1:08 AM   #9
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I second rev on this one.

If I use my onboard graphics chip, it can't render HD content. If I use my 8800gt, It can render HD [email protected] just fine. ALso, cpu cores don't play much of an importance on pixle rendering but does an incredible amount of data transfer. DDR800 2gb at least is needed compatible with at least a dual core to process data transfer and read and write. GPU does the pixle rendering.

for the record, [email protected] is really [email protected] when converted. 30fps looks blurry if you are video capturing at a party and if also the cameraman is completely drunk.

Lesson learned.

parties I do [email protected] and scenery i do 1080i (but wish for a [email protected] with optical stabalizer)
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Old Feb 6, 2009, 10:24 AM   #10
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OK, If you say so.

Anyway, does the ps3 support 1080/60p out of interest? Has 1080/60p become part of the Bluray standard.

I have another observation as well regarding cmos and video wobble.

I have noticed that very few Sony'sat 1080i exhibit the cmos wobble, 1080p on cams like the hd1000 seem to exhibit it more. I never had the hd1000 long enough to test to many things but was sure that the 1080i had less cmos wobble than when in 1080p, I wonder if 1080/60p will actually improve the scan time and again improve ie lessen the effect of cmos wobble?




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