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Old Aug 16, 2006, 10:32 PM   #1
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Hello all-

My MiniDV is starting to die- dead pixels showing up. So I've been looking for a new video camera and I've come across these memory Camcorders (lack of a better description).
So far I tried a AipTek MVPR (something like that) and also the Samsung SC-MM10. The Aiptek was cheap but also didn't produce the quality video I was looking for. I experienced a lot of problems with the unit going out of focus while filming for no apparent reason. It's now returned. The Samsung which cost $299 at first really impressed me but when I tried burning a DVD of the videos you could see a lot of tearing,etc. especially during action scenes. It was totally useless. BTW- I use ULEAD Video Studio 10 for editing film and creating DVDs.

So I've focused my eye now on the Sanyo C6. It seems to have the best reviews out there. Can anyone tell me there experiences with burning DVDs using video clips made from this camera? Do people not bother with trying to burn DVDs from video cameras like these? I guess I'm concerned that I may be barking up the wrong tree by trying to convert mpeg4 videos to DVD (mpeg) compliant files.

Thanks in advance...
bri








I do a lot of video editing, etc. using ULEADs VideoStudio 9 and 10.
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Old Aug 16, 2006, 11:22 PM   #2
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I'm having the same problem with the SC-MM10S but not ready to give up. The videos look fine when played directly from the camera, or when played on a PC, but are full of artifacts when reconverted to DVD using ULEAD. The more on-screen movement the worse it looks. I realize there are two lossy formats being used, but if I can watch it once and it looks good, it should be possible to convert it and still have it look good.

I tried a shareware program: Amor AVI DivX MPEG to DVD. Results were even worse. However it gave me hope that different software packages have different results, so eventually one will do it right.

I'm tempted to try Sonic's MyDVD for $50.

Even if it never works I'll stick with the Samsung. I've captured tons of spontaneous video that would have never been recorded if I had to carry the MiniDV. Watching on the PC is getting more and more acceptable to me anyway.


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Old Aug 16, 2006, 11:58 PM   #3
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Have you tried the software that comes with the camera? I saw it was also a ULEAD product but I didn't bother trying it.

I too like this camera, however, I need to be able to create DVDs for sharing.

BTW I tried mp42avi butit doesn't recognize the samsung file format.

There is a forum @ the samsung site. I'll check it out.






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Old Aug 17, 2006, 1:28 AM   #4
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Hi Blegate:

I can only tell you my experience and expectation of the video from my C6, other people may have very different opinion.

To get the best video quality, you need to set it at the highest quality setting (TV-SHQ) - I find the video quality inadequate in all lower settings.

TV-SHQ has screen resolution of 640 X 480 pixels, and video bitrate of 3 MB per second. 640 X 480 pixel resolution is "very close" to standard DVD screen resolution, but not as high as the high-definition (HDTV) standard. In my opinion, 3 MBps video bitrate is good enough for this 640 X 480 resolution in a MPEG4 video codec (which includes the MP4 video format from the Sanyo C6). You may know that the video bitrate is much higher in DVD (MPEG2) video, but because the codec used and compression ratio is different from MPEG4, they are not directly comparable just by numbers.

My experience with burning the C6's MP4 files onto DVDs is that, it is perfectly good when shown on a standard (tube) TV of up to about 500-520 horizontal lines, with none of the motion artefacts you described (pixelation, blurry edges or broken figures during fast motion). Some of the users (including myself) feel that switching the image stabilization on may actually create more image blurring, because the camera tries to resist movement at the times of fast motion, which is totally inappropriate. The video quality is comparable to (but not quite as good as) a cheaper consumer-class miniDV camcorder, when shown on a standard TV. I do not have a HDTV therefore I cannot tell you what it looks like - since the TV set automatically zooms the image to fill the screen, I cannot guarantee that small imperfections in the original video are not exaggerated.

One minor thing to note is that when converted to DVD, the image is slightly stretched along the width, because of difference between the Sanyo video (640 X 480) and DVD standard (720 X 480 for N. Am NTSC) resolution.

Other comments about the general image quality of the Sanyo C6 (my own opinion only) - the auto white balance is not reliable all the times, sometimes making the image too green/ yellow, other times too red/ purple. You can set the white balance manually before shooting, or, if you don't have time, you can try to correct the HSV of the video or pictures afterwards with editors (I use freeware VirtualDub).

The Sanyo Xacti C6 comes with its own special MP4-compatible version of Ulead Movie Factory 4, which does the DVD conversion and burning jobs perfectly. Someone asked the question about MP4 compatibility with other Ulead products such as VideoStudio, but when I went to the Ulead website, there is no mention of any patches or upgrades to make them compatible with MP4. However, there is a simple solution to this problem: use this freeware called MP4CAM2AVI

http://mp4cam2avi.sourceforge.net/

This program changes the "container" of the MP4 file to make it compatible with DivX/ XviD AVI format, without changing any of the original video data. If you have been playing with digital video you may already know about DivX/ XviD codecs (I prefer XviD because it remains truely open source freeware and is fully compatible with DivX AVI) - you need to install one of these codecs in order for media player (like Windows MP), and maybe the video editor (actually many more newer editors have built-in support for DivX nowadays) can recognize the AVI files.

Hope this helps.
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Old Aug 17, 2006, 10:19 AM   #5
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Hi blegate,

My personal experience probobly important to you because I also use ULEAD products a lot.

First of all, you DON'T NEED MP4CAM2AVI and the similar software at all when you're using Ulead VideoStudio 10: just load your clips and stills in Video Editor and do what ever you need.

As I've mentioned in one of the earliest topics here is my steps for making the movie: 1. I load clips in UVS10,
2. Edit them and
3. Create MPEG-2 files for each logical topics I need.
4. After that I use NERO VisionExpress for creating DVD movies with menus. Of course, you can use Ulead Movie Factory 4 or 5 for the same purposes.

Most currently I've found another very convinient software: MemoriesOnTV (http://www.codejam.com/) which also gives you opportunity to load clips and stills DIRECTLY from your C6 and create good looking movies without any additional products.

But the quality of UVS10/NVE3 based movies looks a little bit better than MOT ones.

FZKAP

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Old Aug 17, 2006, 11:50 AM   #6
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I use the Sanyo C5. I think it is basically the same as the C6?

My DVD production is different. I trim the clips and join them in the camcorder, then load them in a Panasonic hard drive video recorder. (I also put clips from my Canon DVD camcorder into the Pany). I can do more editing if I want to in the Pany.

Periodically, I make a DVD from the Pansonic. I'm certainly not a pro but I find the DVDs to be very satisfactory. My DVDs are usually a mix between the Sanyo and the Canon. I cannot see a quality difference on a normal TV. There are small problems with the Sanyos, such as noise from zoom and occasional focus problems. These, to me, are compromises and not important when you consider the advantages of these small Sanyos. I keep hearing that turning off the image stabilizer improves the video but I haven't done that yet. I did a test in my back yard and could not tell the difference between on and off.

Personally, I'm waiting for the HD1a and hoping that the bugs that were in the HD1 have been eliminated.
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Old Aug 17, 2006, 7:21 PM   #7
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FZKAP wrote:
Quote:
Hi blegate,

My personal experience probobly important to you because I also use ULEAD products a lot.

First of all, you DON'T NEED MP4CAM2AVI and the similar software at all when you're using Ulead VideoStudio 10: just load your clips and stills in Video Editor and do what ever you need.

As I've mentioned in one of the earliest topics here is my steps for making the movie: 1. I load clips in UVS10,
2. Edit them and
3. Create MPEG-2 files for each logical topics I need.
4. After that I use NERO VisionExpress for creating DVD movies with menus. Of course, you can use Ulead Movie Factory 4 or 5 for the same purposes.

Most currently I've found another very convinient software: MemoriesOnTV (http://www.codejam.com/) which also gives you opportunity to load clips and stills DIRECTLY from your C6 and create good looking movies without any additional products.

But the quality of UVS10/NVE3 based movies looks a little bit better than MOT ones.

FZKAP
Yes I know ULead Videostudio 10 works with mpeg4 files; however, not very well with the Samsung varation. I'll try burning a mpeg2 compliant file first before making a DVD. I didn't do that last time. I justlet the software do its thing. If that comes out clean then I'll consider keeping the camera. If I still have issues then it's going back to Amazon.

I see the C6 is being sold @ Prestige Camera for $260 (import model). Also Circuit City is selling the C6 for $467 (US Model). $467 seems kind of high to me. My concern about buying the import model is that many people complain about stuck pixels, etc. I bet getting customer service would be a big problem. I hate Circuit City's return policy-15% restocking fee. That's $70.

brian




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Old Aug 18, 2006, 12:43 AM   #8
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pgkc0 wrote:
Quote:
I'm having the same problem with the SC-MM10S but not ready to give up. The videos look fine when played directly from the camera, or when played on a PC, but are full of artifacts when reconverted to DVD using ULEAD. The more on-screen movement the worse it looks. I realize there are two lossy formats being used, but if I can watch it once and it looks good, it should be possible to convert it and still have it look good.

I tried a shareware program: Amor AVI DivX MPEG to DVD. Results were even worse. However it gave me hope that different software packages have different results, so eventually one will do it right.

I'm tempted to try Sonic's MyDVD for $50.

Even if it never works I'll stick with the Samsung. I've captured tons of spontaneous video that would have never been recorded if I had to carry the MiniDV. Watching on the PC is getting more and more acceptable to me anyway.

pgkc0-

After wasting about7 DVDs I think I may have found a solution. It does require Ulead VideoStudio 10. This is what I did:

1) import clips into VideoStudio10

2) Set the project settings to AVI 640x480 compression is set to "uncompressed"

3) render a an AVI file with the same project settings. Note- I noticed ULead trying to default the compression to the "SEDG Video Encoder" codex (Samsungs BTW). I changed this back to"none"

4) create the AVI file

5) Set up a new project, and import the AVI file

6) create the DVD. Played find on my standard old TV.

Now I tried this with a 35 sec clip which I've had the most trouble with. It plays very well on my DVD player. I think the trick here is to get your video clips lined up, render to an uncompressed AVI file and then burn a DVD. Usually I render to a Mpeg before burning the DVD but this didn't seem to matter.

I'll continue to test this theory out. Now I have to decide if I want to keep the dang thing.

BTW- I down loaded some C6 video clips and I didn't have to do anything special to get them on to a DVD. They use the standard Mpeg4 format- stupid Samsung.

Brian


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Old Aug 18, 2006, 9:47 AM   #9
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Hi Brian,

I still want somebody to try MemoriesOnTV and share the experience with me.
It's interesting for me why I can't find any notes about using this software in the community.
I was really surprised how simple is to create DVD for combination of video and stills with MOT.

FZKAP

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Old Aug 18, 2006, 10:49 PM   #10
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Hi, does anyone tried the DVD divx player.
I group/convert my files using MP4CAM2AVI and then burn them into DVD as data files and play it on the DVD Divx player. The Divx player are dirt cheap, its around CA$39.99 and I am sure its cheaper in the US and could be a standard or all DVD players in the future.





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