Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Sigma dSLR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 7, 2005, 1:51 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Default

HI everybody,

Got in touch by e-mail with foveon asking when is the new foveon sensor is due?

the answer was the following from the VP:

Dear Adel,



Thank you for your e-mail and support of Foveon and our X3 image sensor technology. We are hard at work on our next generation of image sensors and believe they will demonstrate significant advances with respect to what the industry current has to offer. As I am sure you can understand, we have made it our policy to not comment on new products that we may or may not bring to market until the time comes for a formal announcement. I know this makes it difficult on you as a consumer to decide when to make a decision. We appreciate your interest in Foveon and our X3 technology.



Sincerely,



Eric Zarakov

VP, Marketing Communications

Foveon, Inc.



Looks like the foveon is commited, no word of sigma, sensor still in deveopment stage? . Hope it comes out befor xmas or at least announced befor that.

It also indicate that foveon is developing more than one sensor simulateously

the VP is sure the sensor will be better than most of whats available now

digicam-aim is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Aug 12, 2006, 7:30 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 66
Default

It has been a long time since anythinghas been heard from Foveon, are they officially bankrupt and gone or still issuing form letters like this one?
SigmaSD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 13, 2006, 4:35 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10
Default

the rumor is that there will be some kind of anouncement at PhotoKina in September from Sigma hopefully it will be the rumoured replacement for the SD10. if it actually sells any though is another matter.
aquatarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 2006, 12:54 AM   #4
Administrator
 
steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,535
Default

I would not be surprised if the SD11 or whateverSigma calls it uses a Sony CCD sensor, I think Foveon is a financial gonner these days. You can create a great sensor but can you market it against the power and numbers of the likes of Sony? The cost to develop and market a new digicam is kept minimal by using readily available components and next to the imager the main processingboard is a costly piece of the puzzle. Most companies buy the Coach processingboard which is ready to use a Sony CCD. Sony can also make quantity purchase discounts that others could not afford to offer just to keep the market cornered.
steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 2006, 2:26 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10
Default

No i think you might be wrong there, Sigma have stated that any new DSLR will use a Foveon sensor. Foveon have been rumoured to have been working on a new sensor for the last couple of years so with PhotoKina coming up we might finally see something but i wouldn't hold my breath. Quite how Foveon will / has ever made any money from such small sales is still open to question but think the companies that back them (National Semiconductor) has very deep pockets and is not looking for a quick profit but is looking at a long term investment. Foveon has also been rumoured to be working on camera phone sensors along with the company thats developing the liquid lens.
aquatarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2006, 2:03 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10
Default

If Sigma uses any sensor other than a Foveon then I believe they will lose what small customer base they have. The Foveon sensor is what draws the user to the Sigma DSLRs. A switch to a Bayer sensor will take away the one unique difference that the Sigma DSLR offers and it will be relegated to "just another DSLR". Why would anyone buy a Sigma DSLR that offers nothing different than a Nikon, Canon, Sony, Pentax, etc.? All of those makes accept OEM and 3rd party lenses, the Sigma only SA lenses, there is no reasonto buy one in that case.
ntotrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 26, 2006, 4:50 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 66
Default

SigmaSD9 wrote:
Quote:
ntotrr wrote:
Quote:
If Sigma uses any sensor other than a Foveon then I believe they will lose what small customer base they have. The Foveon sensor is what draws the user to the Sigma DSLRs. A switch to a Bayer sensor will take away the one unique difference that the Sigma DSLR offers and it will be relegated to "just another DSLR". Why would anyone buy a Sigma DSLR that offers nothing different than a Nikon, Canon, Sony, Pentax, etc.? All of those makes accept OEM and 3rd party lenses, the Sigma only SA lenses, there is no reasonto buy one in that case.
The most probable reason would be similar to the reason people buy Sigma brand lenses for other DSLRs instead of their native lenses: perceived value.

It would be very hard to sell fewer cameras than the SD9 and SD10, combined, if Sigma DSLRs changed to an accepted lens mount, like they sell their lenses. Andall Sigma brand lenses would still fit. A new Sigma DSLR that does not include a Foveon sensor would be a lot more successful than the SD9 series, if sold in a Canon and/or Nikon mount at a lower price point/higher value point than the competion.

To a lesser extent than film, but still to a large extent, it is about lenses much more than the sensor. Current Sigma DSLRs are most hindered by rather average Sigma SA lenses. All the newer sensors are quite extraordinary compared to 35mm film. Sigma could easily dump Foveon and do better overallif they could favorably compete as a body manufacturer, but so far their digital bodies lack frame rate and transfer bandwidth. Both shortcomings could be overcome with a little effort. In usability, simplicity,body speed, and operational ergonomics, Sigma DSLRs alreadyare much betterthe very best the big guys haveto offer--which ain't much.

Sigma could continue to sellSigma brandlenses to increasing numbers of entry level DSLR users who look for value overexcellent performance, as they financially stretch to upgrade from lack luster point and shoot sensors and optics. They could target Nikon and Canon mount Sigma DSLRbodies with any good sensor to the exact same crowd.

But I do think it is possible Foveon may make one final attempt at selling digital camera sensors before giving up the ghost. Ironically, Foveon would be well advised to leave Sigma if Sigma insists on sticking with thewith the SA mount,for reasons stated above, Sigma's value oriented lens linecannot showcase them and will continue to drag down their reputation.Interestingly, Foveon's best production color thus far comes from Polaroid/Ricoh, not from Sigma. Foveon needs to be more careful, three strikes and they are out.

SigmaSD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2006, 9:44 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10
Default

partly agree with you there but theRicohcamera never materialised and the Polaroid X530 was / is a resounding failure. was withdrawn from sale due to technical problems with camera then rereleased again with most of the original faults still unsorted and appears to be only available in the United States. Would imagine that only a few thousand were ever sold and cameras that remain instock will end up in the bargain bins.

from what has been said on the dpreview forum Sigma only ever manufactured 10,000 of the SD9 and same number of the SD10's and the only reason the SD10 finally sold out wasbecause ofthe massive price reductions to clear the SD10 from retailers went from £1100 to £549 in the UK.

I do agree with you that all the time Sigma stick to the SA mount sales of any new DSLR from them will only go to users of the SD9 and 10 here in the UK the only retailer to carry the SD9 or 10 is / was warehouseexprees and they are an online retailer only i can't really see the situation changing in that what ever Sigma decides to do they will only ever sell in very small numbers. For Foveon to succeed they need someone like Nikon or Canon to use the Foveon sensor and that probably will never happen.

will be interesting to see what Sigma / Foveon announce at Photokina but even if they do release a new camera/ sensor 99% of the buying public won't take any notice of it.

If you look at Sigma's USA website it shows the SD10 as newly released and looks like they haven't updated their website for 2 - 3 years also there has been no improvements to Sigma PhotoPro software for 3 years, even though one of the top people at Sigma was quoted as saying that there were still a lot of improvements they wanted to do to the PhotoPro software. well 3 years is a long time to show absolutely NOTHING

looks to me from a personal point of view that Sigma really doesn't know how to market a DSLR and have been caught out by the pace of development from Nikon, Canon, Oly, Pentax and now with Sony coming into the market their options are getting fewer and fewer.

If Sigma do release something at Photokina ifear it will be based on the old SA7n film camera (slightly smaller the the SD9 /10 which were based on the old SA9 film SLR) with a maybe slightly improved Foveon Sensor if that is the case Sigma can kiss good bye to any increase of there market share and probably be the end of Foveon in the DSLR sensor business. it does look like (from rumours) that Foveon has been working on camera phone sensors as this might be its only chance left of making a profit and not end up being sold just for the patents Foveon holds on 3 layer sensors.
aquatarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2006, 10:28 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 66
Default

aquatarkus wrote:
Quote:
partly agree with you there but theRicohcamera never materialised and the Polaroid X530 was / is a resounding failure. was withdrawn from sale due to technical problems with camera then rereleased again with most of the original faults still unsorted and appears to be only available in the United States. Would imagine that only a few thousand were ever sold and cameras that remain instock will end up in the bargain bins.

from what has been said on the dpreview forum Sigma only ever manufactured 10,000 of the SD9 and same number of the SD10's and the only reason the SD10 finally sold out wasbecause ofthe massive price reductions to clear the SD10 from retailers went from £1100 to £549 in the UK.

I do agree with you that all the time Sigma stick to the SA mount sales of any new DSLR from them will only go to users of the SD9 and 10 here in the UK the only retailer to carry the SD9 or 10 is / was warehouseexprees and they are an online retailer only i can't really see the situation changing in that what ever Sigma decides to do they will only ever sell in very small numbers. For Foveon to succeed they need someone like Nikon or Canon to use the Foveon sensor and that probably will never happen.

will be interesting to see what Sigma / Foveon announce at Photokina but even if they do release a new camera/ sensor 99% of the buying public won't take any notice of it.

If you look at Sigma's USA website it shows the SD10 as newly released and looks like they haven't updated their website for 2 - 3 years also there has been no improvements to Sigma PhotoPro software for 3 years, even though one of the top people at Sigma was quoted as saying that there were still a lot of improvements they wanted to do to the PhotoPro software. well 3 years is a long time to show absolutely NOTHING

looks to me from a personal point of view that Sigma really doesn't know how to market a DSLR and have been caught out by the pace of development from Nikon, Canon, Oly, Pentax and now with Sony coming into the market their options are getting fewer and fewer.

If Sigma do release something at Photokina ifear it will be based on the old SA7n film camera (slightly smaller the the SD9 /10 which were based on the old SA9 film SLR) with a maybe slightly improved Foveon Sensor if that is the case Sigma can kiss good bye to any increase of there market share and probably be the end of Foveon in the DSLR sensor business. it does look like (from rumours) that Foveon has been working on camera phone sensors as this might be its only chance left of making a profit and not end up being sold just for the patents Foveon holds on 3 layer sensors.
I agree with you 99%. On the Polaroid/Ricoh color issue, I was only pointing out that the x530 produces notably better color than Sigma SA goggled Foveon sensors. The 530 was a failure for many reasons, but color was substantially improved.

I agree with you that Sigma bungled their DSLR line from the start. It is not a pretty reason, but the reason is simple: incompetence, dynastic managerial failure, lack of understanding about how didgital cameras work at the most basic level. It all started with Sigma not knowing the MP rating of their own camera...talk about shooting yourself in the face.

Before anyone gets carried away with yet another rumor of a new Sigma SD (every year to date has been "the" year) let's not forget that Sigma hasalready demonstrated that they can take an earth shattering product and kill it stone dead. Any new offering will have less of an advantage than the original 9, and it won't capture the imagination of technophiles this time around.

Personally I think there is a small chance (~30%) of a camera announcement in 2006, but very little chance (<5%) of hardware before 2nd Qtr of 2007, if at all. I also agree with you that Sigma will make the mistake of actually doing what is on the Photokina website, making a "compact DSLR." Read: bottomfeederoffering.

Several indicators support this hypothosis:

1) Foveon has demonstrated that they value technicalmeasurbation over artistic empowerment. They are inclined to miniaturize, because they can. Because they aren't really photographers, they lack an artistically derrived deep appreciation of why effectiveness is worlds better than efficiency in this business.

2) Sigma's big announcements of late have centered around existing lens conversions to 4/3.

3) Sigma is enamoured with the idea of a making a dslr to prop lens sales. I believe they will comprimise, in their minds, and release a 4/3 mount compact dslr. Sigma thinks they can sufficiently dominate the 4/3 lens market, since Nikon and Canon won't go there (for good reason). The SD9 and SD10 are effectively 4/3 cameras now, minus the lens mount compatibility,theyare alreadyheavily invested in that basic focal range.

A 4/3 Foveon will actually have more appeal than an SA mount Foveon, but it will fail quickly for the same reason the 9 and 10 failed: it cannot existin a pro bag. Foveon will again be branded as a low end sensor maker, but at least they won't be locked behind Sigma glass from an image quality perspective. This is a mistake from whichthey could conceivably recover, but unfortunetely, they don't have another foul to give.




SigmaSD9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2006, 9:09 AM   #10
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

The Sigma SD14 will be unveiled on September 26th. Here is a teaser:

http://www.sigma-sd14.com/


JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 2:05 PM.