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v8griff Oct 13, 2004 3:58 AM

First of all I have to say thanks, particularly to the lads & lasses who post here on a regular basis, for all the useful comments, sample pics and general opinions. It has proved a great source of info.

However, trying to sort one problem (i.e. what camera to replace my DSC-P8 with - currently between P100, P150 and W1) has created another. I have reached no conclusion at all about my next camera as I continually read contradicting reports. For instance the W1 in the UK has been awarded several awards (both PC PRO and what digital camera, who submit the cameras to some fairly stringent tests) but I'm not convinced by the overall opinions posted in these forums. I realise that there will never be a perfect camera, but i do find it confusing!! One minute its the W1, yesterday the P100, today the P150 :?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is if someone can come up with a defintive guide or test for any given camera, they will be worth a fortune :?

Any comments anyone???????

sdromel Oct 13, 2004 3:14 PM

This issue is no different for cars or computers. Cameras are complicated systems.

I constantly marvel at the people who show up at a camera counter asking which camera is best when they haven't researched the issues nor evaluated their requirements. So the big thing now is to just push mega pixels. If you've actually read the camera evaluations by "Steve" in this website he saysin effect, "we don't necessarily need more pixels over better cameras" (see Pro 1 evaluation).

I remember when I was in the process of buying my UZI some woman asked, "why are you buying that older model (referring to the UZI) over the newest one (referring to the smaller & more pixels C-7XX). My comment was, "Madam, because it takes good pictures". I've never looked back in regret.

I know some people who purchased a $350 camera, took two or three photos & never used it again (because they have no interest in photography much less good photography).

Since complicated systems invariably involve tradeoffs (eg, cost, performance, capabilities, functions, etc.), probably the most useful approach I've found is the requirements assessment approach. Mainly list the things you want the camera to do for you (also list the things you dislike), rank the list(s) & research the available cameras to find the closest match.

(I mean there are people who complain about a camera because it has plastic parts even though it meets their needs functionally & performance wise; if it had a titanium exterior it wouldn't have been considered because of cost.) If you never or rarely expect to make large prints don't consider a huge mega pixel capability as you're probably trading cost & possibly sharpness (as a result of loss from noise correction) & physical size & weight. For example 8MP is not too exciting if most of your shots are indoors under low light & the camera doesn't have built in AF assist lamp and/or good low light capability. [And some of those people who are sold 8MP & actually try such a resolution for run-of-the-mill shooting complain that the file size is now too large.] (As for me, I'll accept some PIX noise for good low light capability.) If you are shooting mostly high speed outdoor sporting events then camera speed, viewfinder, control locations, movie capability, etc. may be important & not low light. And on it goes.

Someone recently gave me an F-717. Through using it I realized the strengths & some limitations of that camera. Once you understand the limitations you can work within them & even around them. There are websites by people who specialize in F-717 & post marvelous photos taken with this camera (same is true of many many other cameras).

The reality is that most camera consumers really aren't interested in photography. They are just casual users. The other reality is that most casual users are taking photos indoor (also in covered areas) & thus under low light or at least less than ideal light conditions. (I often see someone with a tiny camera taking a PIX of a scene some 40 feet away in a half lit church or similar enviornment & I watch as the tiny flash radiates into the nether.) In actuality, the average consumer would probably value good light handling capability & quality lens over pixels, plastic case, noisy mechanism, not so nice menu system & even battery life. I think this is one of the major reasons we see the attention to presence [or lack of presence] of the AF assist lamp in the camera reviews.And on it goes.

Anyway, those are a few of my observations.

So, I guess, a conclusion is that you are staring at the definitive camera guide. It's called "Steves-Digicams". What you are failing to recognize/accept is the consumer human condition. Mainly, that people vary in their level of interest & enthusiasm in the pursuit of photography as well as in evaluating their own requirements (the latter probably mostly due to a combination of laziness and lack of discipline). If determination of what constitutes a perfect camera to consumers was so easy/straight forward, then manufacturers would no doubt compete to provide such a camera. (If attempted, however, no doubt the immediate retort would be "costs too much, is too large, is too complicated.........." you get the point).

Fad3.In Oct 13, 2004 3:15 PM

Ok,stop confusin yourself too much...

I got an Olympus 3.2MP,was disappointed,took it back...

Got a KOdaKDX4530 5MP,was like shit quality wise,took it back...

Got a W12 and was immediately impressed,so SONY all the way...


stallen Oct 13, 2004 10:28 PM

Here is an answer to your question. I believed you asked which of three cameras should you buy. I would say that since all three of these cameras are simple point and shoot, I would go with the P150 if price is not an issue. I'm basing that in picture quality and what I've read in the reviews. 7MP's might be more than you or most anyone needs, but Sony has done a good job with this CCD. If you were happy with your previous point and shoot camera I'm sure you'll be even more happy with any of the three you mentioned.

Cybershot455 Oct 14, 2004 3:57 AM


If you've seen any of my posts since this summer you'll see I upgraded from a Sony P52 (3.2mp - 2x zoom)to a P12 around June. The P12 outfit is just like your P8but with 5MP, a blue body, extra battery and leather case.

I home tested the P93, V1, P12 and Canon A75. It was only home testing of these several cameras that showed me excactly what I wanted from the upgrade.

If you are in the UK why not buy from say Jessops or online at Cameras2U who both give no-quibble trials?

Over my P52 I most appreciate the P12 for... The smallerbody size, the longer zoom, the InfoLithiumbattery system, 5mp images, continous/tracking focus modes.

You also might have seen I have noted the comments from others about the reported "blurring" issue with the W1 and P100 due to the noise reduction system. I have no personal experience of this but would want a really good home test to make sure it didn't appear in the type of images I take.

What actual improvements are you looking for over the P8?


v8griff Oct 15, 2004 4:06 AM

Thanks to you all for the (somewhat indepth) responses. I do indeed appreciate the human factor in assessing cameras (and the subjective opinions), however I do find it influences people and it doesn't help trying to make one's descision.

Stallen - you are right, price isn't an issue in the UK really. I can purchase the P150 for around £40 more than the W1 or P100. So it would seem sensible to spend the extra money and buy the P150 for its increased CCD? :cool:

Cybershot455 - thats interesting! (I do live in the UK) I thought Jessops would only accept returns if they were unused, as several other retailers do? I really want a digicam that takes a more detailed photo. 3MP are fine, but I tend to be a bit of a gadget freak and once I saw the high quality of the pics taken with the three cameras I've mentioned, I had to have one!!!! Incidentally if you log on to the Dixons website, type pricerunner25 in the promotions box and you will receive a £25 discount. That means you can have the P150 for £275:?

blr Oct 15, 2004 12:30 PM

IMO unless you plan to enlarge to A3 size the higher resolution of the P150 is not really needed. At the same time the files get larger and memory sticks are expensive. I've been shown A4prints takenat 5MP and8 MP resolution and I couldn't tell them apart. From what I've seen the P150 uses the same aggresive noise reduction as W1 and P100 and the images look slightly soft on screen, but this can be fixed with post processing or tweaking in camera settins (some detail is lost but the images look sharp).

So, my advise is get the W1 or P100 and put the extra cash for a larger memory stick, this of course providing you are not going to make a poster sized prints.

Cybershot455 Oct 16, 2004 5:37 AM


Our local Jessops were quite aware I'd used the camera for a whole weekend event. But be sure you keep every bit of wrapping and don't remove tags/labels.

Also you must not open the software CD...this is crucial. As a Sony user you will have your own memory stick and reader I guess??

Cameras2U also are happy that you will have used the camera...with the same software proviso.

I would support the fact that there is absolutely no need to go for the 7mp over the 5mp. File sizes on the PC, display issues and excessive memory card use all count against the 7mp unless you have some sort of photographic or technical use.....and then you should be getting a different type of camera anyway.


zm Oct 21, 2004 5:21 AM

Cybershot P100 and W1 have a tendency to lose detail with their over aggressive noise cancellation. DSC P150 suffers less from this.

I have a DSC-W1 now, but planning to upgrade to a P150; only catch is LCD - W1 has a nice 2.5 inch (albeit low res) vs 1.8 inch LCD (higer res)for P150.

I would advise DSC P150.

v8griff Nov 1, 2004 3:37 AM

Thanks David for the info, it is appreciated.

I've noticed that Dixons have a 14 day no quibble return policy so as they are selling the W1 at the moment for £209.99 incl postage, I've decided to try the camera out. If not to my liking it will be going back! I have my own batteries & memory sticks etc so that won't be an issue.

I'll tell you what my thoughts are when I try the camera out.


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