F828 noise questions

[MortenJensen]

Hi everyone

I am about to buy a F828 but have been a little alerted on the noise issue. I have three questions:

1: It seems only to be a problem with iso above 64. Now, does iso 64 cover what is normally needed? Is it only in extreme situations you would want to go above. Or am I mistaken here.

2: When such an situation occurs can the problem with noise be helped by going down to a 5 m.pixel size? That is, using a lower resolution for your picture?

3: Finally: does anyone have an idea whether the problem with noise also goes for the new minolta, nikon and canon 8 mio. pixel cameras?

Thanks!
Morten

[Zal]

Well, first of all, let's take a step back. Personally, I think you are starting off with a faulty premise--there is only a "noise problem" if you think there is. Yes, the noise level is higher than on most 5MP cameras; however only you can decide if this higher noise level is a problem or not. I suggest you download some of Steve's sample photos from the review (you can get them here: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_...8_samples.html ). He has samples from all the ISO levels. Look at them on screen. Print them out. THEN decide if you have a problem with the noise or not.

To answer your questions:

1. ISO64 will certainly NOT cover all needed ranges--it's much too low a sensivitiy to get you decent shutter speeds in any but the brightest outdoor conditions, unless you use a tripod. ISO 100 and ISO 200 are probably the most often used values (in my experience). You'll need ISO 400 and ISO 800 if you do a lot of indoor photography without flash, or shoot any indoor sports.

2. Doubtful. The noise is there because the pixels are physically smaller than on a camera with a 5MP sensor. When you shoot in 5MP mode, the camera takes the picture using all 8MP, then resamples it down to 5MP. This will have little to no effect on the amount of noise in the photo.

3. And finally, the other 8MP cameras on the horizon (Canon Pro1, Minolta A2, and Nikon 8700) are all using the same Sony sensor, so I would anticipate very similar noise levels.

[MortenJensen]

Thanks for your reply!

I've just tried to run through some of Steve's samples in some noise reduction software and it works quite well. Perhaps that is some of the solution - unless I should go for at dSlr.

But could you tell me (perhaps a stupid question): why don't they put the same size cdd in the brand new 8 mio. pixel cams that we have in the 6 mio dSlrs like Eos 300d??? I just don't get it: since this is a problem to many users - and since a better technology is on the market - (and CMOS should be even cheaper to produce than CDD) - why don't they then use is also in the high end non-dslr cameras?

Morten

[Zal]

Originally Posted by MortenJensen

But could you tell me (perhaps a stupid question): why don't they put the same size cdd in the brand new 8 mio. pixel cams that we have in the 6 mio dSlrs like Eos 300d??? I just don't get it: since this is a problem to many users - and since a better technology is on the market - (and CMOS should be even cheaper to produce than CDD) - why don't they then use is also in the high end non-dslr cameras?
Morten

A larger CCD/CMOS (Like in the dSLRs) requires a much larger (and more expensive, and heavier) lens. Since the CCD in the 828 is very small, you can use a lens that casts a much smaller imaging circle. Therefore, you can make this lens small, lightweight, and inexpensive (at least relative to 35mm lenses). Also, you can design a lens that would be all but impossible on a 35mm camera--try and find a 28-200mm f/2.0 lens for 35mm--it doesn't exist. That is one of the advantages of these smaller all-in-one cameras like the 828 over a dSLR.

[Ardent]

It's very true...... the Sony's CCD is a quarter the size of a DSLR and its when you start upping the pixels that you are going to experience noise.
So yes, just as [Zal] says, it will not matter one bit which other 8MP camera you choose, the results will be the same.

But lets not turn that statement into a negative issue. using this camera correctly, noise can be controlled and produce some exceptional pictures.
I have some drop-dead gorgeous 2'x2' posters produced AND without any software correction.

As [Zal] says, having the ability to have a much lighter lens to lug around that has 28-200mm f/2.0 built in is one of the many reasons why I use this camera so often.

Even my Nikon DSLR takes a back seat ride on what is becoming a more frequent trip.