Sony R1 - the one thing missing?

[amazingthailand]

Actually, it DOES have a video mode...

Just look at the LCD/EVF ... VIDEO

The camera just does not offer the option to capture/save it.

Declan

[Lin Evans]

amazingthailand wrote:

Lin, to the best of my knowledge, the R1 does not have a mechanical shutter. If it did, you would not be able to get flash sync at 1/2000.

I suspect Sony did not add movie mode because they were trying to reach a different audience. Just like Sony did not add a still photo mode on their FX1/Z1 HD camcorders. It is on the mass consumer oriented HC1.

It would also have probably required a different set of electronics and that, most likely, would have added to the cost. I am guessing, but I think Sony did everything they could to keep the camera under the $1000 price point, including not giving it an adequate buffer for shooting raw.

Declan

Hi Declan,

I'm sitting here looking into my R1's lens and actuating the shutter. I just got off the phone with second level technical support at Sony and their technician just looked up parts on the R1 in their parts manual. He immediately located a "shutter motor assembly" - doesn't seem like there would be a shutter motor without a shutter does it? :-)

Unless there is some new technology with which I'm unaware in terms of CMOS processors, all CMOS based sensors require a mechanical shutter.

The issue of being able to sync above 1/250th (which seems to be the limit for CMOS based dSLR's) is problematic, but my Canon EOS-1D can flash sync to 1/4000th but at reduced flash strength for fill. I'm assuming that this is the same with the R1 - it can sync but not at full strength above 1/250th.

I think we can safely assume that the R1 has a mechanical shutter even though it doesn't have a mirror assembly.

Best regards,

Lin

[Lin Evans]

Actually, it DOES have a video mode...

Just look at the LCD/EVF ... VIDEO

The camera just does not offer the option to capture/save it.

Declan

Yes, but the refresh rate is way too slow for serious video use. You can't even track a moving subject without loosing frames.

Lin

[amazingthailand]

Lin, the R1 sync's the flash (internal and external TTL) up to 1/2000. It seems to do it quite reliably. I do have to admit that there is a definate mechanical clicking sound when you take a shot. So who knows what is really going on. But either way, I doubt very much that the mechanical shutter (if it exists) controls the exposure. It must have something to do with clearing the sensor just prior to taking the exposure.

I was just spoofing when I said it did have video, although it does, sort of.

Cheers. Declan

[Lin Evans]

amazingthailand wrote:

Lin, the R1 sync's the flash (internal and external TTL) up to 1/2000. It seems to do it quite reliably. I do have to admit that there is a definate mechanical clicking sound when you take a shot. So who knows what is really going on. But either way, I doubt very much that the mechanical shutter (if it exists) controls the exposure. It must have something to do with clearing the sensor just prior to taking the exposure.

I was just spoofing when I said it did have video, although it does, sort of.

Cheers. Declan

Hi Declan,

I really don't know how the mechanical shutter functions in the R1, but it does have one.Unfortunately Sony's technical support isn't extremely helpful either, even at the second level. I have a cluster of five dead pixels and wanted to know about how to map around them in firmware, something common enough that my Olympus digicams have user procedures for, but Sony doesn't have any suggestion other than sending the camera in to determine whether it's up to their "standards" or not - LOL. I'm reluctant to bother since there are almost always a few dead pixels when the sensors come off the assembly. Usually QC maps them in firmware and it would be an easy thing to provide the user with this software but no such luck.

I was absolutely astounded at how little their first level tech support knows about cameras in general. The technician didn't even know what a "hot pixel" was and hadn't a clue about mapping. She also didn't understand the difference between a mechanical and electronic shutter and seemed to know very little about cameras and photography at all and constantly had to refer to a manual. By her answers to simple questions it was quickly apparent that she knew little about the way digital cameras work. The second level technician at least knew where to look for answers and knew what a "shutter" was - LOL. No luck on the pixel mapping and he quickly found a part number for the shutter motor assembly, but obviously had never had an R1 opened up so was referencing a print.

Perhaps I'll talk to someone at the Sony PMA booth this year that actually has a clue. In the old days when there was still a Sony Professional ProductsDivision for cameras it wasn't like this. These consumer people are obviously not properly trained by the product managers so we can expect mediocre service as well I would guess.

Best regards,

Lin

[amazingthailand]

I strongly suspect that the first level of phone support are just people hired off the street and handed a script. Get this question, give this answer. No thought processes involved. Sad but true.

I think Sony may need to rethink their approach with the R1. It is definately not your run of the mill digicam and the people who buy it are likely to be more knowledgeable photographers than the average digicam buyer.

I have never had to contact Sony for support, even on my camcorders, so I have no experience if their support is better on their high end DV and HDV camcorders. I hope it is.

Good luck getting you hot pixel issue resolved.

Declan

[mr_goodwrench_06]

See, that is the problem. Some of us ARE your run of the mill Digicam buyers, we just want the best. There are people out there like me who want a 10 Mp camera with lots of zoom, 30 fps movie mode, night framing, steady shot, and the Sony name.



I want this, so there must be others that want it. I'd pay a little extra for that!



Bill

[amazingthailand]

mr_goodwrench_06 wrote:

See, that is the problem. Some of us ARE your run of the mill Digicam buyers, we just want the best. There are people out there like me who want a 10 Mp camera with lots of zoom, 30 fps movie mode, night framing, steady shot, and the Sony name.

Well the 10MP, lots of zoom, 30 fps movie mode, image stabilization and night framing does indeed make you one of the average digicam buyers. And that was just my point, the R1 is not that camera. It is not for the average user, it is for the more discerning and most likely, more experienced, photographers.

In other words, the R1 is NOT for everyone.

But fear not, I strongly suspect that what you want is on the horizon, especially now that Sony is literally taking over KM. But bear in mind that your long zoom, unless it is dead slow, will be quite expensive to implement on a large sensor.

We live in interesting times.

[zygh]

There's always interesting things happening... one just has to find out about them.

What was that about Sony taking over Konica-Minolta?

[amazingthailand]

From the dpreview news release:

"This has to be the biggest and most shocking news before the upcoming PMA show, Konica Minolta has today announced that it is withdrawing from the camera and photo business. They will be transferring assets related to their camera business to Sony who will continue to develop digital SLR's based around the Konica Minolta lens mount. Konica Minolta it appears will continue to work with Sony (a relationship announced last year) in the development of digital SLR's and lenses but they will not be branded as or be sold by Konica Minolta. Full announcement and details of the Sony asset transfer inside."