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Old Dec 4, 2006, 6:13 AM   #11
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RJR wrote:
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meanstreak wrote:
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A 7D owner on another forum sent me this picture. It represents one of the types of pictures she got with this condition. Her camera is being repaired at Precision. The shutter was back-ordered and is now in stock.
That photo is similar to the results I got.

Coincidently the camera did take a minor drop a few days before. It was inside a standard Minolta hip bag and fell off a chair and landed on commercial carpet. I checked it out and it worked fine after the drop. No problems taking pictures or trouble with the AS system. I put it away for a few days and then experienced the problem. I'm not saying the drop definitely has anything to do with it, but thought it might be a possibility. The good news is I only paid 265 for it with the kit lens and have an extra year on the warranty from Circuit City. It is still under the one year warranty and it would be better for me to have it repaired since refunding me doesn't get me much. I could probably get more for it on EBay even with the problem.

If I send it out for repair, I might use a gift receipt copy. I figure if Sony gets wind of how little I paid, they might opt not to fix it right off the bat. Of course they might not know unless Precision tells them and I doubt that since Precision probably does better on repairs verses buy-outs.

In any event, I'm going to wait a couple of days to see if it happens again after I clean the contacts and cycle the shutter a gazillion times.

The same thing happened to my son's 7D after a very minor drop of about 18" in a padded camera case. It worked when he tested it but a week later he started having problems and sent it in still under warranty. That was at the time when they were having part problems and they refunded his purchase price and said it was not repairable.
Bob, In the case of the pictures I posted, she emailed me this AM and said hers had never been dropped. I wonder if the drop really caused the damage, or if it was coincedence? The reason I ask is that I hear of similar acidental dropping in padded bags and other damage occurs soon after. Heck, UPS treats packages worse than this, and I dare say all of our cameras have been dropped by them several times before we got them.
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Old Dec 6, 2006, 12:44 PM   #12
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Bob, In the case of the pictures I posted, she emailed me this AM and said hers had never been dropped. I wonder if the drop really caused the damage, or if it was coincedence? The reason I ask is that I hear of similar acidental dropping in padded bags and other damage occurs soon after. Heck, UPS treats packages worse than this, and I dare say all of our cameras have been dropped by them several times before we got them.
Hi Alan, I think it may have something to do with the orientation of the camera when the impact occurs. My sons was in a holster bag so when it hit it actually hit nose or lens first and that may be worse than a drop in the box where it is more likely to be about 90 degrees different when the impact occurs. He had no problem with his camera at all untill the drop and he started to have problems right away and within a week it no longer would take photos. Sony said it was a AS system failure and just gave him his money back.
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 10:16 PM   #13
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Same happened to me on my Dynax 5D, no any impact. It seems to be a factory defect, amd KM was supposed to recall the bodies, but they didn't.

See this link: http://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/F...lack_Frame.asp

Does we deserve it??


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Old Jan 19, 2007, 10:14 PM   #14
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I often get a totally black screen with my first shot each time Ifirst turn the camera on with my 7D. I just got to where I expect it, so I just plan on it happening and I turn it off and back on and it's usually fine after that as far as that issue is concerned. I need to send it off for repair for other resons anyway, so I just thought I'd mention this as well. Just thought I'd mention it here for documentation'ssake with the7D.
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Old Jan 20, 2007, 1:04 AM   #15
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This issue should be treated seriously enough by Sony to warrant a recall.
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Old Jan 20, 2007, 8:07 PM   #16
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I'd say Sony has had it's fill of recalls as of late. I wouldn't expect them to recall a product they don't need to.
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Old Jan 27, 2007, 8:17 PM   #17
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Today, I got my first "first shot black" malfunction on my 7d. It also wasn't a black shot really, but more of a grainy blue shot followed by a lockup which was corrected by turning the camera off and back on. Some particulars for anybody keeping track- it was cold this morning, about 30f. (I have been out in much colder weather though) Also, my battery was nearly out of charge (it died about 6 shots later).

I also decided to try Jim C's advice, and cleaned contacts and ran about 4,000 shots off at 1/4000. We'll see how that works in a few days.

The effect on the shot is kinda cool though...


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Old Jan 29, 2007, 8:10 AM   #18
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JimC wrote:
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It's probably the same issue (the so called "first shot black" issue). I do remember seeing a photo that was just very underexposed versus totally black.

Interestingly, the EXIF looked correct if memory served (settings should have resulted in proper exposure).

Hi Jim,

Just found this article on the "First Black Shoot issue!

http://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/F...lack_Frame.asp

Peace,

Alex 007:|
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Old Jan 29, 2007, 8:34 AM   #19
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I've read it. Personally, I think the issue is being blown out of proportion, and I have not changed my opinion as to the root of the problem.

I think it boils down to the shutter mechanixm sticking when the camera hasn't been used for a while.

The error 58 is apparently related to how long the camera senses pressure on a roller cam. Well, if it's sticking because it hasn't been used in a while, it may see pressure for too long. ;-)

Ditto if you have a bad connection, weak battery or other electrical issue. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if what's "really" fixing some of these cameras is the reseating of the connections inside, versus the actual parts replacement. :-)

The best analogy I can think of is a weak battery or bad connection in an Automobile. In that case, your starter may turn more slowly. Ditto if the car has been sitting up for a while (the engine's lubrication is not going to be as good then).

The difference with the camera is that the KM engineers decided to monitor for this condition (the error 58 that is shutting down the camera).

Yes, it appears that KM decided to change out a part along the way to reduce this binding condition. But, I've seen reports from users that the problem reoccured with, after their camera was serviced with parts replacements.

So, from my perspective, the issue is the way KM is monitoring the pressure. They probably should not have used a tolerance as tight as they do before shutting down the camera.

I've been hesitant to mention it. But, my 5D just started doing it again over the past couple of weeks (after no problems at all since February of last year). It may even be because we just started getting a bit of cold weather here.

What I plan to do.... I'll do exactly what I did the last time around. I'll clean all contacts (battery, battery contacts in camera, lens contacts on lenses and camera's lens mount).

Then, I'll shoot a card full of images using continuous mode to heat up and loosen the shutter mechanism. My guess is that this procedure will keep it running fine for another 10 or 11 months or so. I should probably just do this about every 6 months and consider it a semi-annual tuneup.

I'll let you guys know if this fixes it again (as I suspect it will) or not. I'll try to get around to cleaning it again within the next few days.


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Old Jan 29, 2007, 2:58 PM   #20
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JimC wrote:
Quote:
I've read it. Personally, I think the issue is being blown out of proportion, and I have not changed my opinion as to the root of the problem.

I think it boils down to the shutter mechanixm sticking when the camera hasn't been used for a while.

The error 58 is apparently related to how long the camera senses pressure on a roller cam. Well, if it's sticking because it hasn't been used in a while, it may see pressure for too long. ;-)

Ditto if you have a bad connection, weak battery or other electrical issue. It wouldn't surprise me at all, if what's "really" fixing some of these cameras is the reseating of the connections inside, versus the actual parts replacement. :-)

The best analogy I can think of is a weak battery or bad connection in an Automobile. In that case, your starter may turn more slowly. Ditto if the car has been sitting up for a while (the engine's lubrication is not going to be as good then).

The difference with the camera is that the KM engineers decided to monitor for this condition (the error 58 that is shutting down the camera).

Yes, it appears that KM decided to change out a part along the way to reduce this binding condition. But, I've seen reports from users that the problem reoccured with, after their camera was serviced with parts replacements.

So, from my perspective, the issue is the way KM is monitoring the pressure. They probably should not have used a tolerance as tight as they do before shutting down the camera.

I've been hesitant to mention it. But, my 5D just started doing it again over the past couple of weeks (after no problems at all since February of last year). It may even be because we just started getting a bit of cold weather here.

What I plan to do.... I'll do exactly what I did the last time around. I'll clean all contacts (battery, battery contacts in camera, lens contacts on lenses and camera's lens mount).

Then, I'll shoot a card full of images using continuous mode to heat up and loosen the shutter mechanism. My guess is that this procedure will keep it running fine for another 10 or 11 months or so. I should probably just do this about every 6 months and consider it a semi-annual tuneup.

I'll let you guys know if this fixes it again (as I suspect it will) or not. I'll try to get around to cleaning it again within the next few days.

Dear Jim,

Yes what you, wrote seems me very...very...cute & accurately...!

With my lovely Dynax (Europe model) 7D TILL YET...NO problem at all, because as with all my ample strobes/flash collection, I by routine clean all the contacts + charge the capacitor for at least 15 minutes fire 6 times, rest for 2 minutes shutting the unit off to cool the capacitor...& again do the same ALL my today "NOT IN ROUTINE USE...strobes. each year 3 times. Because I each day shoot with my 7D regularly around 5 photos of my garden "Leaves"...so the camera is keep in "Good Shape" (Better that me...truly true!)...and each time that I charge the battery I clean the two gold coated battery contacts with a "Q" cotton buds, barely moistly with 100% lab alcohol, from NEXT time I will clean also inside the body contacts...BTW...two day before I change after cleaning my "CCD sensor" (You don't will like my method:P), but really works, WHEN you use it EXTREMELY CAREFULLY "Compressed Industrial "Air Duster" can, "Aero- Duster 134a" from Miller-Stephenson brand...& decided to refit my lovely Minolta 24-85mm lens PERMANENTLY...till the NEW Tamron 18-250mm zoom lens will be released to the market & will be available here in Israel..(Can take few months...SO NOT in great hurry!!!), for own it & be mounted FOR GOOD AS MY CAMERA/LENS OUTFIT SET As I check it & say...NOW my CCD is 100% completely clean. Regarding the "lens contacts"...really I'm very sorry but I forgot to clean the 5 contacts, but NOW I will press the lens mount on the camera & MOVE the lens WITH OUT TAKING IT APART FROM MY CAMERA BODY...forward & back 5 times. so the body & lens contacts will "SELF CLEAN" themselves...

Thanks Jim for reminder this "Cleaning" cognitive operation:idea:

Peace,

Alex 007:|
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