Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Sony Alpha dSLR / Konica Minolta dSLR, Sony SLT

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 27, 2011, 9:58 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 66
Default a580 or a65? Coming from a300 with extra lenses

So I had an a300 and I am looking for a new camera but I have some existing glass and accessories. I have a Sigma 17-70mm, Sony 50mm 1.8 and Minolta beercan lenses. I also have the 42 Sony flash (don't remember the entire model number just that 42 is in it), so I am most likely going to stay with Sony. My buddy just got the T3i and it is a pretty nice camera but I would have to sell all my stuff and switch to all Canon, but I don't think I even want to do that.

Reading a lot of good reviews on the a580 but the new a65 looks very nice, but not sure about that 24mp sensor yet. I love the idea of the new OLED viewfinder and the added benefits of the new mirror system but not sure if I need to go that route. Will the a65 lose stops like the a55 does vs the a580 because of the mirror design? Body only prices are only $100 appart so if I am going to spend the $799 on the a580 I should at least consider the a65.

I am one of those guys who wants a good camera but I am not an avid photogropher but I like idea of trying to be one in my spare time. I have a 15 mos old so this camera would be used a lot for her, so I do like the ability of having video. I know the a65 would be superior in the video department but I don't want to compromise in the photo department because I would be using for stills much more than video.

I liked the size of the a580, it is large but feels great, but I have not yet felt the a65. If it is anything like the a55 I think it is kinda small and not comfy to hold. I would also have to wait for the a65 to be released which is looking like around Oct. 19th, the a580 I could have now.

If you have any questions that I should answer to help with the decision please ask and I will respond. Any and all suggestions or ideas are welcome and greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Raistlin_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Sep 27, 2011, 11:59 AM   #2
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

If it were my money, I think i'd go for the A65 if choosing between the A65 and A580 (but, I'd probably go with the A580 if choosing between the A55 and A580).

There are just too many nice features you get with the newer models, and by most accounts, Sony has also been working on AF tracking algorithms, too. Of course, if budget permits, go with the A77 instead. Chances are, I'll buy an A77 for personal use before years end from what I'm seeing from it so far, as my Sony A700 is a bit "long in the tooth" compared to the latest models ;-)

The A77 (and A65) are using a new 24MP APS-C design with a translucent mirror in the light path (that allows Sony to do things like keep the AF sensors on target all the time without any mirror blackout getting in the way to improve AF tracking, frame rate, etc.).

I've been spending some time comparing images from the A580 (which is using a Sony 16MP CMOS APS-C size sensor like the D7000 uses with a traditional body design), and I'm impressed with what I see so far when viewing images at the same viewing sizes from the A580 and A77.

For example, when I use the Comparometer at Imaging Resource.com and look at ISO 6400 images sized to my display from both the A580 and A77 (using the test charts in simulated daylight lighting, as well as the mannequin in tungsten lighting), the A77 images appear to have better sharpness, saturation and contrast (perhaps even a bit too much for my tastes by default) without any noticeable increase in noise levels when you view them at the same size (versus viewing them at 100%, where the 24MP image is going to be larger). They're using pre-release firmware (version 0.58), so it will be interesting to see what Sony comes up for when they release the production firmware for the A77 (and A65).

When looking at RAW level test from DxOMark, keep in mind that those tests don't take things like retained detail for a given viewing/print size into consideration. So, even though the RAW test may show slightly higher noise levels with the 24MP Sensor in the A77 versus the 16MP Sony Sensor used in the Sony A580 or Nikon D7000 (about 4/10 of a stop difference), if you consider the extra pixels you're putting on subject and look at retained detail from both sensors at the same viewing sizes, you can end up with more detail from the camera that tests with a slightly higher S/N ratio.

Here's their comparison showing the Sony A77, Nikon D7000 and Sony A580:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/734|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/680|0/%28brand2%29/Nikon/%28appareil3%29/685|0/%28brand3%29/Sony

You can get to the comparometer at imaging-resource.com here. They have images available for the A580 and A77 (using pre-release firmware for the A77 images, which may improve with the final release), and the A65 images should be the same as the A77, as they're both using the same 24MP Sensor.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2011, 12:58 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 66
Default

As much as I would love to buy the A77 I just cannot justify the cost, especially with that new kit lens. I am worried that even on the A65 I would need much better glass to really take advantage of the new sensor. My sigma is pretty good but it is no zeiss and I am sure not anywhere as good as that new lens. I would probably need the zeiss 16-80 or maybe the dt 16-105 lens with the A65. My hope right now was to just upgrade the body and keep all existing glass. I think the A580 and my Sigma lens would be a pretty good fit but not sure with the A65.
Raistlin_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2011, 1:11 PM   #4
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

There is little doubt that you'll need very good lenses to take full advantage of the extra resolution if you want to get the best out of the newer sensors.

I saw a similar issue when Sony released models like the A350. You didn't see any benefit going to the higher resolution 14MP sensor versus the 10MP sensor in the A300 using the older KM 18-70mmm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens design, because the older lens design just couldn't resolve enough line pairs/mm to take advantage of the extra pixels.

As a result, you ended up with a larger version of the same image being captured by the 10MP sensor, with no additional detail being captured.

That's probably one reason Sony abandoned that lens design and went to a newer 18-55mm kit lens that could make use of the extra pixels and give you more detail with a higher resolution sensor.

But, even if your lenses won't resolve well enough to see any benefit from the higher resolution sensor (and my guess is that you would see some benefit with your lenses), you should still get as much detail as you would from the lower resolution sensor if you resize them to the same viewing/print size, even if "per pixel sharpness" is not as good trying to view a larger 24MP image at 100%. ;-)
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2011, 3:41 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
TCav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, DC, Metro Area, Maryland
Posts: 13,544
Default

Aside from the 24MP vs. 16MP thing, there are a lot of good reasons to go with the A65 instead of the A580.

But there's one good reason to go with the A580 instead. Sony makes a vertical grip for the A580 but not for the A65. The VG-C77AM vertical grip is for the A77 and not the A65.

Depending on the shooting you do, you may or may not find that valuable.
__________________
  • The lens is the thing.
  • 'Full Frame' is the new 'Medium Format'.
  • "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions." - Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot.
TCav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2011, 4:00 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 66
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCav View Post
Aside from the 24MP vs. 16MP thing, there are a lot of good reasons to go with the A65 instead of the A580.

But there's one good reason to go with the A580 instead. Sony makes a vertical grip for the A580 but not for the A65. The VG-C77AM vertical grip is for the A77 and not the A65.

Depending on the shooting you do, you may or may not find that valuable.
I had the vertical grip for my a300 and only used it when I was in museum, which was twice. I liked the grip but it made the a300 rather large and the a580 is large to begin with. I don't think I will be doing the type of shooting that requires a vertical grip, but that does kinda stink that I wouldn't even have the option. Fortunately from my experience with my a300 I know that I rarely used the grip.

I am loving all the great reviews of the a580 and that it is a traditional and stable DSLR. But I do like the idea of this new technology and hopefully they improved since the first few models with the new model.

I remember all the reviews of the a300 vs a350 saying that the extra MP on the a350 just created extra noise, hoping that is not the case with this new 24MP sensor.
Raistlin_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 28, 2011, 5:24 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
TCav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, DC, Metro Area, Maryland
Posts: 13,544
Default

There are several rumors, supported by multiple interviews with Sony execs, that the A580 will be the last conventional dSLR from Sony.
__________________
  • The lens is the thing.
  • 'Full Frame' is the new 'Medium Format'.
  • "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions." - Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot.
TCav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 10:09 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 66
Default

I am just not sure what to do, I would love to have the newest tech but would also love to have something that is proven. 24MP sensor just seems so high with the file sizes being out of control, not to mention I may need better glass to take advantage.

Indoor shooting is going to be important for me and the a580 will most likely be better than the a65/77 from what I am reading. I have a 50mm 1.8 and my Sigma is the 17-70 2.8 (2.8 at 17mm) so the fstop is decently low at wide angle. I am afraid that the translucent mirror will lose some advantage there.

Also, Sony has reduced the price on the a580 by $50 so its $750 for the body only. Going this way I will definitely keep my current glass but if I go with a65/77 I will be spending much more money and will want new glass.

The only thing that is bugging me about the a580 is no AF in video mode, that is the only negative and it has nothing to do with still photos.
Raistlin_01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2011, 8:34 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
frank-in-toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 1,083
Default

i have the same sigma lens. the problems sigma is having on the latest sony 9a65 and a77) have me concerned. I'm not changing anytime soon anyway. but my investment in sigma lenses may not have been wise. apparently, sigma does re-chip or something to fix them so it may be ok in the end. i don't know. also, i'd say with the 5xx series we have the best of both worlds. a reasonable (if dim) OVF and PDAF in Live View. so you can use which-ever is most appropriate.
frank-in-toronto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2011, 7:35 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Old Boat Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 362
Default

Does the a580 have a better viewfinder than the a550? With my glasses the viewfinder on my a550 leaves quite a bit to be desired. It is usable for framing but forget about reading any of the information at the bottom.

Sigma does offer re-chipping of lenses for the SLT cameras.

I copied the following from Dyxum

Notice to Sony α33 and α55 owners using Sigma's Sony fit lenses


Sigma's lenses for Sony mount may have a potential aperture operation problem when used with the Sony α33 and α55 Interchangeable Lens digital cameras.
To overcome this issue, we will be offering, free of charge, a modification service to our customers who have purchased a Sony α33 and α55 and own Sigma lenses for Sony mount.

This phenomenon will only occur with Sony α33 and α55 cameras. Future production of Sigma lenses will be fully compatible with these cameras.
We deeply apologize for any inconvenience caused to our customers.


Phenomenon
When shooting with a Sony α33 and α55 cameras, the aperture may not work properly and a “camera error” message will be displayed on the camera.


Lenses requiring the modification
All current Sigma's lenses for Sony mount.
* For lenses discontinued several years ago, a modification may not be available. For further details, please contact your nearest authorized Sigma Service Station.


Support for this issue
We will be offering a modification service for our current range of lenses free of charge. Please contact your nearest authorized Sigma Service Station.
Old Boat Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 9:13 AM.