Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital SLR and Interchangeable Lens Cameras > Sony Alpha dSLR / Konica Minolta dSLR, Sony SLT

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Feb 28, 2006, 2:12 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Default

Noise Ninja and Neat Image have profiles for jpeg images from the KM5D, with Neat Image also having a profile for RAW. Is the availability of a RAW profile valuable or is it easy to create custom profiles for the particular file format you favor?

Any other considerations in the selection of this software that might pertain to the KM5D? Is there anything distinctive about the noise produced by the KM5D that somebrand of noise reduction software does a better job of correcting or is that all handled by the "profile" ?

I use Photoshop Elements 4;the plug-ins may work with Elements. Whatare the advantages of a Plug-in: convenience and eliminatinglosses from an additional file save in jpeg?

Most of the posts about these software packages are a year or older and treat Ninjaas equal toNeat. Do the recent versions have features that might make a particular brand more attractive?

Thanks in advance,

Scott
Magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Feb 28, 2006, 9:37 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
Posts: 4,036
Default

The last time I checked the Neat Image plug-in works in Elements but the Noise Ninja one didn't. You might check their sites for changes.

I find there are advantages to a plug-in that a stand alone program can't match. Noise reduction softens the image some and I don't necessarily want to apply it to the entire image.

Say you have noise in the sky but the rest of the image is OK. Apply noise reduction to a layer, select the sky, invert the selection and hit the Del key. Now the noise is removed from the sky but the rest of the image is unaffected.

I find that noise reduction does a good job on faces. I do the same thing as I did with the sky and then use a fine eraser to bring eyes, hair, lips etc back.

You can also select the edges and Del. I have a nice freeware edge selection plug-in that does a better job and is more controllable.

I think most people make their own profiles.

slipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2006, 10:52 AM   #3
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Savannah, GA (USA)
Posts: 22,378
Default

Eric Hyman just released a new version of Bibble that has noise reduction based on Noise Ninja via a new parternship wiith Picturecode that you may want to give a try. He has versions for Linux, Mac and MS Windows operating systems.

He has trial versions you can download, too.

http://www.bibblelabs.com/

You'll see sliders to help reduce noise with some of the popular raw converters (for example: Adobe Camera Raw, Raw Shooters Essentials/Premium). But, it's been my experience that third party products have more advanced algorithms for this purpose.

JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2006, 2:32 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
tmoreau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 477
Default

You have to pay for Noise Ninja, the cheapest option is a standalone program but for $10 more it works as a plugin with PSE4. I use it with my 5D with great success, it does an outstanding job. I just upgraded to the plugin version (having previously owned a standalone license) and its ten dollars very well spent. Its a HUGE convienence being able to run noise reduction in PS, especially when your processing more than one photo.

I havent used neat images or the others so I dont know how they compare, but the built in noise reduction in PSE4 is JUNK compared to what noise ninja can do. Not that it dosent have its uses, of course.
tmoreau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 1, 2006, 1:44 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Default

slipe wrote:
Quote:
I find there are advantages to a plug-in that a stand alone program can't match. Noise reduction softens the image some and I don't necessarily want to apply it to the entire image.

Say you have noise in the sky but the rest of the image is OK. Apply noise reduction to a layer, select the sky, invert the selection and hit the Del key. Now the noise is removed from the sky but the rest of the image is unaffected.

I find that noise reduction does a good job on faces. I do the same thing as I did with the sky and then use a fine eraser to bring eyes, hair, lips etc back.

You can also select the edges and Del. I have a nice freeware edge selection plug-in that does a better job and is more controllable.
I have applied Adobe's noise reduction to portions ofimages, so I follow that point.

However, I'm having trouble understanding the procedure. Do you mean that Neat Image or Noise Ninjacan be applied toa new layer andnot the layer the image ison? The erasertool would be used on the noise reduction layer to remove the noise reduction over the eyes, hair, etc., to preserve detail?

Thanks,

Scott


Magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 1, 2006, 3:07 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
Posts: 4,036
Default

Quote:
However, I'm having trouble understanding the procedure. Do you mean that Neat Image or Noise Ninja can be applied to a new layer and not the layer the image is on? The eraser tool would be used on the noise reduction layer to remove the noise reduction over the eyes, hair, etc., to preserve detail?
Exactly. When you erase or select part of the picture and hit the Del key the unmodified image underneath shows.

slipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 1, 2006, 10:39 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Default

Slipe,

Okay thanks. I practiced with the technique and see how to use it.

Is the purpose of this approachto provide control of image editing down to the pixel level, which can notbe acheived with selection tools, even the better one you have?

Is this an example of why a noise reduction plug-in is more useful than astand alone program, because thestand alonedoesn't have the editing options (e.g. fine eraser) available in Abobe?

Scott
Magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 1, 2006, 11:08 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Default

Slipe,

Just thinking further,could the technique you described be performed with a stand alone noise reductionprogram? For instance,the unprocessed file and another file processed for noise reduction were placed on different layers in Adobe? Or could files processed outside of Adobe have a registration (alignment) problem?

Scott
Magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 1, 2006, 11:41 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
Posts: 4,036
Default

Quote:
Is the purpose of this approach to provide control of image editing down to the pixel level, which can not be acheived with selection tools, even the better one you have?

Is this an example of why a noise reduction plug-in is more useful than a stand alone program, because the stand alone doesn't have the editing options (e.g. fine eraser) available in Abobe?
I seldom work at pixel level except maybe to remove red eye manually or something similar. I am only talking about noise reduction and I often don't want to shotgun it for the entire image. The eraser is for touch-up. You can also use the history brush. Selection tools with Del or select, inverse and Del are generally more useful. When you select something and hit the Del you revert what you have selected to the lower level – in this case without noise reduction.

Quote:
Just thinking further, could the technique you described be performed with a stand alone noise reduction program? For instance, the unprocessed file and another file processed for noise reduction were placed on different layers in Adobe? Or could files processed outside of Adobe have a registration (alignment) problem?
That works fine, it is just a little more trouble.

File > New and make a file the same size in pixels as the image. You can save the blank file for future use with the same sized images. Drag the original then the one with noise reduction into the new file with View > Snap to > Document bounds checked. The two images will align perfectly.

Edit: That technique is good for other things. In a Luminous Landscape tutorial for combining bracketed images for increased dynamic range they had you putting black borders around the images so you could align them better. Just dragging them into a file of the same size as the image with Snap checked is a lot more accurate and easier.

slipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 1, 2006, 7:20 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Default

JimC wrote:
Quote:
Eric Hyman just released a new version of Bibble that has noise reduction based on Noise Ninja ...
Quote:
You'll see sliders to help reduce noise with some of the popular raw converters (for example: Adobe Camera Raw, Raw Shooters Essentials/Premium). But, it's been my experience that third party products have more advanced algorithms for this purpose.

Bibble with Noise Ninja looks likean excellent value.

However, I know nothing about RAW, except it is unprocessed by the camera and needs to be converted for usein the PC. Should I assume that since you mentioned it, that Bibble's RAW converter better than the one in Adobe Elements 4? Does "more advanced algorithms" apply to the RAW converter (Bibble) or the noise reduction (Ninja) or both?

Jim, I'm sorry I started this thread on this forum instead of PhotoEditors or Plug-ins. I read at imaging-resource.com that the characteristics of noise varied depending on the camera, so I wondered if KM users found a program most suitable.

I am trying to quickly process some pictures from our State Wrestling tournament last weekend and pass them on to friends whose sons' took first and fourth place. So I would like to get setup withBibble, start shooting RAW, andclean-up photos from the post-tourney celebration in a dim restaurant. At Bibble's support forum, Eric Hyman is checking into a problem with the Bibble plug-in for PSE4 and use with Nikon D70. I am awaiting clarification on whether the problem is camera specific or with PSE4.

Again, thanks for the input.

Scott
Magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 4:11 AM.