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Old May 9, 2006, 4:57 PM   #1
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Just got My 5D, Loveit! I've had a Metz 60 CT-4 for god knows how many years always worked great on my 7000i. I know they are not compatable but don't want to buy a new flash. Got a FS-1100 & a 3rd party adapter with PC connection to hook the Metz to the 5D. The question is shouldn't I be able to set the camera to manual & use the auto settings on the Metz? I've set the 5d on 1/125 at 5.6. Set the Metz to 5.6 on the back of the grip. Double checked the distance. Well within range. The images are way, way over exposed. I thought the Metz is supposed to control it's output. I could understand a slight exposure problem that might need some fine tuning but I mean the images are completely washed out. Could the sensor on the Metz be bad or am I missing something.My understanding was the flash controlles it's own output via the sensor. Does it need to comunicate with the camera, I thoght not, but maybe I'm wrong & that's my problem. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Mike
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Old May 9, 2006, 7:56 PM   #2
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First of all, I'd be careful about using that particular strobe via a third party adapter with a PC Sync Port.

It's probably the same adapter that I have, and it does not have any voltage protection built in. Is this the same adapter? If so, there is no protection. A Minolta user named Nick in Hong Kong makes them and he told me that it's only a mechanical adapter with no protection. He said he doesn't have the time right now to make any with protection (he has in the past).

http://www.pbase.com/digital_initiatives/image/25169818

I'd strongly advise you to check the trigger voltage on your Metz before continuing to use it via an adapter like this. Minolta has never published the trigger voltage limits for the hotshoe on the 5D or 7D.

Minolta does make a unit with voltage protection built in (the PCT-100) that allows the use of strobes with trigger voltages up to 400 volts. That's probably why they charge so much for the PCT-100 versus the FS1100. he PC Sync Port on the 7D is also rated at 400 volts.

But, the FS1100 (and most party adapters) don't have this protection, and just because it works with a strobe that has higher voltages doesn't mean that it won't cause cumulative damage leading to a camera failure.

I personally wouldn't trust using a strobe with a trigger voltage much over about 8 or 9 volts via an adapter without voltage protection (since the flash shoe could be designed for 6 volts). All of the compatible Minolta strobes test below 6 volts.

It looks like users have been measuring higher voltages from the CT4 without one of the SCA adapters.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

So, you may want to measure it's trigger voltage and consider something like a Wein Safe Sync for it.

As for the Auto ranges, AFAIK, it should work.

Are you sure you don't have the ISO speed set to where it's causing overexposure (perhaps you left the camera on Auto ISO, with it increasing it indoors)?


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Old May 9, 2006, 8:13 PM   #3
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Thanks for your response. I will try the ISO setting I did leave it on auto. OOOPPPSSSS!!! The Metz literature I have lists the trigger voltage as 5 volts. I wrote Metz to see about an adapter, they told me about the PC setup I bought. The dealer I bought the 5D from was also going to give me the same setup, but didn't have the 1100 or the metz cable I needed. I'm assumming that Metz and the dealer should know what their doing, no?

Thanks,

Mike
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Old May 9, 2006, 8:22 PM   #4
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They should... But, if you check the trigger voltages measured by others without any type of adapter, it was much higher:

"14V with NiCds, reported by Peter Andersen

25V measured by Frank Melchinger... (different editions?)

Anders Lilja reported 24.7V, but it dropped to a safe 4.56V when connected to the Metz Adaptor SCA311

12.7V from Mike in Germany"

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

I'd check it yourself to be safe using a good high impedence voltmeter.

If it's higher, you're taking your chances (since KM has never published trigger voltage limits).

FWIW, the ISO spec is 24 volts. But, whether or not 24 volts is safe with KM DSLR models is unknown (and nobody that I know of has been able to get an answer out of KM about it).



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Old May 11, 2006, 4:34 PM   #5
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Right you are sir. The trigger voltage was 9.6 volts with the PC connection. Thanks for the heads up. As you mentioned voltage was lowered to 4.7 when I tested with the Metz adapter. So, Looking at the adapter I used for my 7000i the pin configuration is the same as the 5D. I put the adapter on the 5D. Flash signal is in viewfinder & It fires the flash. I still have the same problem with over exposure in the auto settings on the Metz. Strange, all apertures set on the Metz over expose except when it is set to f2 which shows 100ft. Can't understand why the lower settings don't work. Have to come up with a way to test the flash using a light meter.

Thanks Again,

Mike
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Old May 11, 2006, 5:00 PM   #6
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With most strobes, when you set the Auto Aperture Range, it shows you the distances you're allowed to shoot at with a given aperture/ISO speed combo. I don't know about this Metz. Here is an example of what I found in specs on one site:

1-6' (0.3-1.8 m)
1.3-12' (0.4-3.7 m)
1.5-18' (0.5-5.5 m)
2-25' (0.6-7.6 m)
3-35' (0.9-10.7 m)
5-49' (1.5-14.9 m)
6.5-70' (2.0-21.3 m)
10-98' (3.0-29.9 m)

OK -- I checked the manual....

Once you select the ISO speed on the handle, and select one of the working auto ranges, the minimum working distance will be approximately 10% of the total range at the aperture shown.

Chances are, you're just too close for the selected range (for example, you'd need to be at least 10 feet away if you're using settings giving you a 100 ft. max range for a given aperture/iso speed). Here's a manual for it if you don't have one:

http://www.metz.de/en/service_suppor...wnload.124.pdf

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Old May 12, 2006, 3:38 PM   #7
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Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to help me work thru this. I spent a couple of hours with the volt meter & my connections. Was trying to see if isolating the extra pins on the Metz adapter would help the situation. I tested the flash using a Minolta flash meter. Not very scientific, but changed distance to subject & tested reflected light with the meter, came within a 1/2 stop of the setting on the flash. So, I know the auto ranges are working correctly. Found that when I isolated pins on the adapter the trigger voltage went back over 9 volts. NO GOOD! So, then the gears started turning. Here is what I tried. Rummaged thru some old items in my draws & found a shoe mount slave. Took the slave added the adapter for a PC connection & plugged that into the Metz. Mounted the slave on the handle of the Metz with the eye facing the 5D. Set the Metz to f2, full power, then set the 5D to auto & pulled the flash up. Test shots came out great. Just have to check the 5D manual to see if that preflash can be turned off. In a very dark room that little blitz triggered the Metz. But I held the shutter part way to lock focus & the Metz recycled extremely fast, I then fired the shot. Still excellent results. I don't think it matters how you get there, as long as the results are what you want.

Mike
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Old May 12, 2006, 8:21 PM   #8
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mikelens wrote:
Quote:
Took the slave added the adapter for a PC connection & plugged that into the Metz. Mounted the slave on the handle of the Metz with the eye facing the 5D. Set the Metz to f2, full power, then set the 5D to auto & pulled the flash up. Test shots came out great. Just have to check the 5D manual to see if that preflash can be turned off.
Nope. You can't turn off the preflash using the built in flash with a 5D. It will always be there, and there is no manual power control of it. So, your Metz is early if it's firing with the preflash based on a slave that's not "digital aware" (designed to ignore preflashes).

As for your voltage, I probably wouldn't worry about it if it's under 10 volts (even if the hotshoe is designed for less, which we really don't know). But, use any strobe at your own risk.


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