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Old Jun 9, 2006, 4:06 PM   #1
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I've tried to find information on what KM is calling "natural" as well asthe other color space selections in my 5D.Also, I've tried to learn what I can about ICC profiles.

The reason is to discern what is going to work out best with my processing programs, monitor and Canon 5200 printer to get a good range of color without having massive files that won't do me any real good.

I've pretty much leftthe 5Dset to natural. I tried the Adobe RGB emdeded and noticed I lost my exif data which I like to review.

I can't say that I'm experiencing any problems due to my lack of understanding here,
but, if maybe things could be even better.

At this point I'm pretty lost and as this subject could run into volumes I really don't expect a lot of help here, but hope to hear from someone who has a good handle on this and might give me a shove in the right direction.

ps love the 5D


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Old Jun 9, 2006, 10:41 PM   #2
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If I may try to address this- I'm not sure what you're asking. The natural setting uses standard sRGB palette. The Natural+ uses a larger palette pre-jpeg compression then assigns the data to the nearest standard sRGB color for output. (effectively enhancing the color range in marginal areas) The Adobe palette is larger, giving a broader color range. I have never used the adobe setting, it cannot be read by most software and it does not seem to offer any real benefit unless you are printing oversize. (with photoshop) I have been told that adding saturation +1 will produce similar results.
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Old Jun 10, 2006, 12:15 AM   #3
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Luminous Landscape and others cover the various pallettes their sizes resultant file sizes, the channels, 8,12, 16... 48 bit (Kodak Photo-Pro); but, I cant follow it through with enough understanding to be able to impliment it. Starting with what color space I should use in the camera and how best to carry that through processing, and printing. If my printer ends up with an ICC or something embedded in the information it receives that originated with the camera and was passed through the photo processing program. The whole idea being to render the pictures colors faithfully every step from capture to processing to print.

Thats about as clear as I can express where I'm at. Lost

Maybe Jim will move this to another forum, but I wanted help from those that have a KM and have run into the Natural, Natural Plus, Adobe, and Embedded Adobe.


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Old Jun 10, 2006, 2:23 AM   #4
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Mercury694 wrote:
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If I may try to address this- I'm not sure what you're asking. The natural setting uses standard sRGB palette. The Natural+ uses a larger palette pre-jpeg compression then assigns the data to the nearest standard sRGB color for output. (effectively enhancing the color range in marginal areas) The Adobe palette is larger, giving a broader color range. I have never used the adobe setting, it cannot be read by most software and it does not seem to offer any real benefit unless you are printing oversize. (with photoshop) I have been told that adding saturation +1 will produce similar results.

I thought Natural+ was simply +1 saturation. While Natural has all settings at neutral. The other stuff you are saying is news to me and frankly confuses me.

What I am not certain of is the Adobe embedded vs non-embedded setting. Can someone explain it to me? And is there really a visible difference in the color palette. Looks the same to me. However, any of my viewing programs seem to be able to read the jpegs taken in the Adobe Color setting just fine.

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Old Jun 10, 2006, 2:29 AM   #5
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Tazzie wrote:
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Luminous Landscape and others cover the various pallettes their sizes resultant file sizes, the channels, 8,12, 16... 48 bit (Kodak Photo-Pro); but, I cant follow it through with enough understanding to be able to impliment it. Starting with what color space I should use in the camera and how best to carry that through processing, and printing. If my printer ends up with an ICC or something embedded in the information it receives that originated with the camera and was passed through the photo processing program. The whole idea being to render the pictures colors faithfully every step from capture to processing to print.

Thats about as clear as I can express where I'm at. Lost

Maybe Jim will move this to another forum, but I wanted help from those that have a KM and have run into the Natural, Natural Plus, Adobe, and Embedded Adobe.


Tazzie, I have been getting very good, color-true results by simply leaving the KM5D set to Natural (and +1 sharpening for my taste), and using the default settings on my Canon i9900 printer. I would not lose any sleep over it, unless your colors seem to be off.

PS: I stopped using generic inks with my printer after having replaced 4 printheads in one year and having had terrible color balance and banding problems caused by those inks. Stick with Canon inks.

Rainer

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Old Jun 10, 2006, 7:16 AM   #6
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I am in territory that I am certainly not an expert on. I did mis-speak above- the natural+ "enhances" the color before applying them to she sRGB palette. The resulting jpeg would look much like the +1 saturation, but I don't know if both methods are equivalent.

I found this and thought it may help-http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm
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Old Jun 10, 2006, 10:14 AM   #7
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Mercury694Great reference!


I've been using Adobe non-embedded for quite a while. After reading the users manual soon after I bought the 5D I interpeted that a larger color gamut would give me more usable colors. After reading your link it sounds like you might gain a small advantage in your prints depending on what printer you use. After all that I still can't say what's best, It probably depends on your subject (colors being captured)and your printer.
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Old Jun 10, 2006, 11:45 AM   #8
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Mercury694 wrote:
Quote:
I am in territory that I am certainly not an expert on. I did mis-speak above- the natural+ "enhances" the color before applying them to she sRGB palette. The resulting jpeg would look much like the +1 saturation, but I don't know if both methods are equivalent.

From what I understandthey arethe same. Natural+ is just a preset mode with the Saturation set to +1. Correct me if I am wrong.

Rainer

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Old Jun 10, 2006, 5:26 PM   #9
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I began with my monitor via the Nvidia grapghics card. The card accepts profiles. It is set manually at present to 1.78 Gamma and seems to be correct in its color and intensity. I'll be searching for other profiles as well as what the profiles it has are. The code letters I see there are meaningless to me: CNB79CAO CBO CCO, Wide Gamut RGB, Kodak_DC, Chrome 2000 D50 D65 and so on.

The Canon 5200 has something called Print Processor which is the only thing that resembles a color gamut selector. Its default is RAW. Yep RAW. Then it has NT EMF 1.006 .007 .008, and text as choices. In another place in the driver's Preferences is Manual Color Adjustment. Here a person can choose manual then enable ICM which is Windows Image Color Management and allows the Canon printer to read and use the "embedded color profile" if the camera and or application software had any. Otherwise it defaults to sRGB. I enabled it.

Menwhile I can't wher my Microsoft Digital Image Pro 10 or Picasa 2 allows me to make any setting for color space. Photoshop does. Maybe Irfanview does.

Bottom line today is I'm not sure what is coming out of Picasa to the printer or how to check it.

Thanks for the Cambridge in Color. That and some time reviewing the IJ Printer and Program Forums may get me there. I'd just like to know I'm doing it right. Not sure anythings really broke but at least it makes my old brain work a bit.

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Old Jun 10, 2006, 6:50 PM   #10
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Page 62 and 63 of the 5D's manual tells us that if you don't choose Adobe RGB or Adobe RGB embedded it will default to sRGB. We are also told that if you go to embedded and try to tun it through Kodak Easy Share or its like the results will be nasty. Yet, embedded is what its all about as it allows color space communication between the camera, the proceeing program, the monitor and the printer.

I can try going back to Adobe RGB Embedded in the 5D and just see how it all goes while I delve further into this great mystery.
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