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Old Jun 24, 2006, 12:20 AM   #1
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I have been cruising around with the Nikon folk for the past few weeks and am just about ready to make my DSLR purchase. When I started looking into buying a camera, I headed straight towards the 5D - but with Konica Minolta folding shop up, and Sony taking over, I looked elsewhere (Nikon). My logic behind this decision was I am just getting into photography - thus I have no glass (Minolta or Nikon). Since I'm starting from scratch, it may be better to go with a brand that will continue to offer me options in the future (camera bodies come and go, glass is forever). Secondly, I've read here and on DPReview that the people at Sony don't have the best warranty department.

I was at the mall this afternoon and found myself starring at a 5D and a D50 sitting side by side at Ritz... I know there are a bunch of 3rd party lens makers that will continue to offer lenses, and there is always KEH and e-bay, but what about Sony's service?

Anybody wanna offer their 2 cents?

mahalo in advance!
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 5:11 AM   #2
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If you only read online forums or reviews of any service center, you will likely get an impression that they're no good. This is because every person that has a bad experience feels compelled to find an outlet to "punish". An online forum is a perfect place for this, the person posting can say anything anonymously and the repair center has no recourse. (Have you ever noticed how on reviews, nearly everyone leaves either 5 stars or 1.) I also suspect that whoever Sony chose for the KM service was quite overwhelmed when service operations changed hands. I assume a lot of people held their broken KM bodies (and digicams) for some weeks before the change and they got pretty well "slammed" at that time.

Since you have no way to tell if any given horror story is true and online reviews tend to highlight the bad, I don't put much stock in them. My $.02.

The question of glass is reasonable, will Sony make it as a DSLR manufacturer. I can't answer that with authority, but I suspect so.They want 25% market share in DSLR,or roughly 10X the customer base of KM, they intend to be around a long while and have plenty of investment capital.There are millions of compatible Minolta AF lenses out there. I don't think you'll run into a shortage for some decades even if Sony quit tomorrow.

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Old Jun 24, 2006, 7:11 AM   #3
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I agree, many people who have no actual experience with an issue will parrot what they have heard online or elsewhere. It's like the rumor game you played in school; the story gets more twisted with each telling. Sure, there are mechanical problems, but you get them with Nikon and Canon as well. I feel that the people with service issues are in the minority. I bought my 5D in late March, knowing that KM had sold out to Sony. There are enough used lenses in circulation that you would never need to buy a new lens unless you wanted to.
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 11:50 AM   #4
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before i bought my KM 5d i used a Nikon D70 as well as a Canon 20d (both borrowed from friends). So before i decided to get the 5d i considered these. The Nikon was not very logical in menu and control functions and i always found it to be rather slow for the price. The Canon was a great camera but the price of the body and the price of the lens i would want was quite a bit higher then i thought they should be. So i settled on the 5d.

I recently had a chance to play with a Nikon D50 and the main reason i would not buy one(i considered it just so i had something for the Nikon lenses i have to go on) is that compared to the 5d it was very slow and also like the D70 the menu system was not the best for fast access to change things. The menu on the 5d is one of the best i have ever used, i can change 90% of the camera settings without ever moving my hands on the camera. It's also very logical in that things you might want to change together are right there together in the menu.

The last postive the KM 5d has over the Nikon D50 is the built in image stabilization. Though some of the Nikon IS lenses will do a much better job of this they will cost you into the thousands....
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 6:43 PM   #5
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hey, thanks for the quick responses. yes, i totally agree about the "information" i get online and stuff... i do realize that for the most part, people will either post because the totally love something, or totally hate something - it is difficult to find a middle unbiased view -go to a konica minolta forum, you'll get konica minolta type answers... go to a nikon forum, you'll get nikon answers... i do realize that ultimately, i'll be making the decision myself (which is why i'm not posting a "help me decide" or "which one is better" post).

both the 5d and the d50 have very positive and strong attributes (5d = built in image stablization... d50 = extremely nice pictures and low noise at high ISO), and i realize that likewise, theyboth have some shortcomings (5d =.smalland crowded viewfinder... d50 = menu navigation, less bells and whistles)i have "played" with both of them at the local CC, but have not had the chance to actually use either.

also taking into consideration price... outa the box, the 5d and kit lens is very hard to beat... i almost picked a brand new one up for $499 the other week. told the sales guy that i'd like to go and have some lunch first and talk it over with my wife and be back right after... when i returned, the sales guy was finished with work, and the manager who had okayed the price said $599 was the lowest he'd go... sheesh.

thanks again for the input, i'll continue reading here and other forums, perhaps go down and play with both of 'um again....


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Old Jun 24, 2006, 8:51 PM   #6
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I wasn't crazy about the feel of the D50 or the xt350 in my hands, andthe quality of the kit lenses felt pretty low. I haven't held a D70 or a 20d, but I do think I would have liked them both better. The KM 5d was pretty good in hand, but the KM 7d was definately better to hold (for me) so that is the way I went. The Nikon D200 was a strong contender for , but with the 7D I got ASand it was 1/2 the price. I feel a camera that feels right in your hands is goingget out of the bag that much more often and the shots should prove better (all else being equal). I have no inclination to enter the megapixel wars, they're going to get as stupid as the gigahertz wars on the PC,IMO.

I do think the IScould bea service issue. It may not be "unreliable", but it is quite sensitive and logically it poses a greater chance of failure in my mind. A no frills photographer may choose to look towards a body with less options, but at what point do you stop cutting out options for reliability. I'd be back to a manual shutter and aperture before long and frankly those cameras broke just as often and you had to wait hours at the shortest to determine if the shots were any good. I'm pretty close to selling my film gear, it woula already be gone if it had no sentimental value.
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Old Jun 26, 2006, 7:21 AM   #7
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Mercury694 wrote:
Quote:
I wasn't crazy about the feel of the D50 or the xt350 in my hands, andthe quality of the kit lenses felt pretty low. I haven't held a D70 or a 20d, but I do think I would have liked them both better. The KM 5d was pretty good in hand, but the KM 7d was definately better to hold (for me) so that is the way I went. The Nikon D200 was a strong contender for , but with the 7D I got ASand it was 1/2 the price. I feel a camera that feels right in your hands is goingget out of the bag that much more often and the shots should prove better (all else being equal). I have no inclination to enter the megapixel wars, they're going to get as stupid as the gigahertz wars on the PC,IMO.

I do think the IScould bea service issue. It may not be "unreliable", but it is quite sensitive and logically it poses a greater chance of failure in my mind. A no frills photographer may choose to look towards a body with less options, but at what point do you stop cutting out options for reliability. I'd be back to a manual shutter and aperture before long and frankly those cameras broke just as often and you had to wait hours at the shortest to determine if the shots were any good. I'm pretty close to selling my film gear, it woula already be gone if it had no sentimental value.
I agree, the 7D feels just right when holding it. The 5D feels pretty good also, but different, mostly because of the weight. The other cameras out there just don't feel right ergonomically. Maybe it's because I have small hands,althogh the 7D isn'ta small camera.... it must be the contours of the grip. The control placements are pretty good too.The learning curve to instinctively knowing where the buttons are along with being able to change certain settings from different placesis just incredible. You would think manufacturerers would make ergos a priorty, but maybe it's not that big a deal or consumersfind the others comfortable.


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Old Jun 26, 2006, 11:32 AM   #8
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Yeah, another fine point is the placement of controls. They're almost instinctive and I now rarely need to look at any control to use it. You can easily keep the camera at your eye and change the most common settings. It is very satisfying to have this, as I've used several cameras with confusing menu's and difficult to change the most common settings. I think though the 5d lacks some of these controls, it still looks like the controls are placed logically and the menu's are intuitive. I hate digging through 5 menu screens to change the ISO or white balance.

I read somewhere that the 7d is made for older photographers, us dinosaurs are used to and comfortable with heavy metal bodies. I'm not sure if that is true for everyone here, but the weight did offer some comfort to me. It isn't that I'd go looking for heavy bodies, but the lightweight Canon and Nikon entry level models seemed to lack a certain build quality and (at least in my mind) a bit of durability.I'm not comfortable shelling out $1,000 for a plastic framed SLR. If nothing else, Kudos to KM for recognizing this and marketing properly to people like me.
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Old Jun 26, 2006, 12:27 PM   #9
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Mercury694 wrote:
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I read somewhere that the 7d is made for older photographers, us dinosaurs are used to and comfortable with heavy metal bodies. I'm not sure if that is true for everyone here, but the weight did offer some comfort to me. It isn't that I'd go looking for heavy bodies, but the lightweight Canon and Nikon entry level models seemed to lack a certain build quality and (at least in my mind) a bit of durability.I'm not comfortable shelling out $1,000 for a plastic framed SLR. If nothing else, Kudos to KM for recognizing this and marketing properly to people like me.
It's common knowledge that heavier cameras take better pictures. Less likely to shake in the wind.


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Old Jun 26, 2006, 2:20 PM   #10
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interestingly enough, the ergonomics and feel of the 5d is one of the factors that sent me looking elsewhere (read nikon). it felt a bit smaller in my hands, and a little plasticky (is that a real word?) in feel... i'm aware tht the d50 is just as plastic as the 5d, but somehow felt a bit more polished, ya know?

just when i feel like i have decided on the camera i want, i second guess myself and feel like i end up back at square one. i suppose it's cool though, i really don't wanna jump into something and regret it later.... besides, i am havingfun choosing what camera (and camera brand) to go with - and i'm picking up lots of other useful bits of info along the way.

mahalo nui loa forthe straight forward responses... i have visited a few non-photography related forums in the past, and was appallled by the flaming that went on when someone asked a question relating to another "brand" i.e. kawasaki question in a suzuki forum... i appreciate the class you show each other.
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