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Old Jul 22, 2006, 8:49 PM   #11
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Thanks for the suggestions, though I'm afraid I don't quite understand the point you are making.I'm aware that digital (and film), cameras are limited in the dynamic range they can reproduce and that most scenes will present exposure values beyond this scope, however, I understood this to be signified by blown highlights (white areas with no recorded detail), or blocked shadows (black areas with no recorded detail). This isn't the situation that I have encountered.I tried to recreate the problem tonight by taking shots of the sun just as it was setting behind a cloud. This time, the sun was much brighter (as there was no light cloud and considerably less haze for it to shine through), and the results were very much as I would expect; a fairly true representation of the scene in front of me.*As expected, where I exposed more for the foreground, the sun was burnt out but there was a clean transition to the surrounding sky which was rendered faithfully.*Where I metered from the sun, it was rendered a deep yellow with a burnt umbre sky beyond, again, with a clean transition with no posterizing, even where the sun was setting behind a cloud.This does seem to be colour rather than exposure related, as suggested by the problems rendering the red teddy bear; I presume that the haze and light cloud of my earlier shots provided a situation where the red channel became clipped despite not being particularly bright-something I wasn't aware happened.*Is this purely related to the red channel and is there a way around this or are all digital camera owners destined to miss out on all the best sunsets?ThanksChris
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 2:25 PM   #12
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try shooting in raw mode (KM file nomenclature: .MRW)

this will maximize dynamic range and prevent the (default).JPEG 'compression artifacts' you are seeing

shot in .MRW (raw) and processed/converted with PSE 3.0

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Old Jul 26, 2006, 12:02 PM   #13
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maxxum7d wrote:
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What they said about dynamic range is true. What you see isn't always what you get with mid-range digital cameras like 5D or 7D. I am not sure if even cameras like D2X or EOS 1D can beat film or your eye.
Interestingly, the Konica Minolta DSLR models can deliver superior dynamic range compared to most other cameras, if you shoot in raw and convert the images with Adobe Camera Raw.

The Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D even outperforms the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II (Canon's most expensive Professional DSLR with a sensor the size of 35mm film) for dynamic range shooting in raw and converting with ACR (Adobe Camera Raw), overexposing with both for best results, according to Dave Etchells' tests with Imatest.

See the Dynamic Range Section here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...M5DIMATEST.HTM.

Shooting JPEG, it's not as good as some (the camera's processing does tend to compress the shadows and clip the highlights a bit more than I'd like).

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Old Jul 26, 2006, 12:17 PM   #14
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"limited in the dynamic range they can reproduce and that most scenes will present exposure values beyond this scope, however, I understood this to be signified by blown highlights"

Not quite... the blinking highlights shows pixels which are aproaching 255,255,255 (which is pure white). If you have a pixel aproaching pure red, its not blown out it would be 255,0,0. What I'm saying is that you can have clipping in each color channel, not just blown out to pure white. A RGB histogram would be better in this respect, but is not availible on our cameras.

RAW files offer something like 4,000 levels of brightness instead of 255 like jpg, the advantage is absolutely clear when your A) aproaching the limits of your sensor or B) making more than slight tweaks to color/brightness in photoshop. You have so many more options to "fix" this type of problem with raw, with jpg your camera makes the call and you are comitted to its decision.

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Old Jul 26, 2006, 4:06 PM   #15
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Hi,Thanks for the comments and suggestions.I've been having another go at sunsets, comparing RAW and Jpeg and there is a big difference in tonal qualities, though I'm still suffering the blown reds and really struggling to get anything out of many of the shots, even in RAW (even after the sun has set and contrast is very much lower, I'm still seeing a red 'bloom' that is very difficult to control).Konica-Minolta have sent some suggestions through that I'm going to give a go but coincidentally, I've also tried sunset shots on a Nikon 5700 that I've recently acquired and it suffers similar problems.Chris
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Old Jul 26, 2006, 4:10 PM   #16
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Chris Bestwick wrote:
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Hi,Thanks for the comments and suggestions.I've been having another go at sunsets, comparing RAW and Jpeg and there is a big difference in tonal qualities, though I'm still suffering the blown reds and really struggling to get anything out of many of the shots, even in RAW (even after the sun has set and contrast is very much lower, I'm still seeing a red 'bloom' that is very difficult to control).Konica-Minolta have sent some suggestions through that I'm going to give a go but coincidentally, I've also tried sunset shots on a Nikon 5700 that I've recently acquired and it suffers similar problems.Chris
Chris, have you tried either the sunset Program setting (on the right hand dial) or the Sunset in the Fn menu?
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Old Jul 26, 2006, 5:41 PM   #17
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I've tried the Sunset setting in the Function mode but it had little impact on the problem, in fact, after initial advoice from K-M, I tried most settings and colourspaces with no succes. Now trying RAW mode at low ISO settings and manually set white balance at 4000-5000 K, again, on advice from K-M though I thought white balance settings were overridden in RAW setting?Chris
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Old Jul 26, 2006, 7:44 PM   #18
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Chris-

It is just a thought, but are you using some exposure compensation when taking sunset shots. I find myself usually using between -1.3 to as much as -2.0 EV of exposure compensation.

Here is an example.It was done with a KodakV-570, but the same principle applies to your KM 5D as well.

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Old Jul 26, 2006, 7:55 PM   #19
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Depends very much on the situation and metering pattern I'm using; the latest shots were taken using spot metering and I tried everything from metering off the sun (where you might expect to give a little positive compensation), to metering off of the sky with a little under exposure.* Even the shots that would usually be considered grossly underexposed exhibited the red bloom.Chris
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Old Jul 26, 2006, 9:09 PM   #20
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Chris-

I am not offended with your reply, nor am I sure what your post was trying to tell me in answer to my post. Hpwever, could it be possible that you don't understand the use of minus exposure compensation when taking sunset photos.

Or another possibility, you were not replying to my post, positioned just above your latest post??

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