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Old Jun 8, 2007, 11:40 PM   #11
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Normal print sizes...

Um, thatgenerally means 4x6s or 5x7s..

Why would someone buy an 8mp camera for producing such tiny prints ? Hell you can print nice 8x10s with 4mp.

The H9 is the flagship model of the H series and we expected so much, but it can't match the quality of the H2 or H5.

Its faster at focusing, yes, its' lens iswide and longer, yes, does the screen flip up and down, yes..

But at telephoto the lens is a lot slower and the distortion at wide leads many to have to zoom in a little to overcome, negating the point of the wide lens.

Plus of course there is the big question.. does it produce better pictures than the H2 or H5 or even the H1 ?

And the answer to that is no.

Will Mr Average Joe who routinely get suckered by sales pitch notice?

No.

The H9 pushes all the right buttons for him, cool screen, wide lens, long lens, a lot of megapixels.

Will he care that at random times in areas of low contrast noise reduction randomly smears areas.. no , probably not noticeable to him, he just does not print big enough to see, and the snapshots he takes are so bad that, well there are other things to complain about before getting to noise reduction..

However for someone who wants to take good pictures that are reliably good, someone who does not want to take 4 or 5 pictures of each scene to try to guarantee a non smeared one, someone who cares about lens distortion, soft corners, soft if not actually out of focusedges.. someone actually used to the excellent colors and accuracy of the H2 and H5(*), well the H9 is a disappointment as it stands.

I am sure the lens design was carried out to Carl Zeiss standards, or by Carl Zeiss branded software (if only to minimum standards to allow the branding), but frankly their reputation is being tarnished in assocation with this lens.

Too much, too far and coupled to a dodgy processoror poorly tested, badly written software.

Will a firmware be issued to fix some of these problems? Maybe, but we have to ask ourselves how such a respected company could release the camera in the first place?

Poor confusing menu system a step back from the older models (which where themselves hardly modern or state of the art) , poor external controls (removal of the front jog wheel should be seen as a capital crime), bad lens distortion/focusing problems at the edges, overbearing (and random)noise reduction (no user control), bad fringing, no user control over high compression, loss of manual peaking, crippled sports mode, poor (and huge) adapter mount coupled to non standard thread size, viewfinder does not stick out enough or have a deep enough eye cup andattaching the standard Orion eyecup is not easy.

Sad really, especially when you compare pictures of the same scene shot by the Canon S5 and find the Canon copes with Sonys over stuffed sensor a lot better than Sony themselves.





(*) To be fair all the H series has always had disappointing green/red fringing, it can mostly be fixed in post processing, but it was obvious on the H1, more obvious on the H2 and H5 and really for the next generation of the H series to still have it shows Sony just don't care.
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Old Jun 9, 2007, 8:19 AM   #12
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Sintares,

I respectfully must say that I perceive you have an agenda.

The great thing about H9 8MP images is that you can crop the original down to 5Mp and still have a wonderful image.

This is an extremely important benefit to those of us who have important moments to capture in our daily lives.

I am one who can wholeheartedly recommend the H9.

It is simply a great piece of photographic innovation.

Thank you for the exchange of ideas including the disagreements.

Nicholas
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Old Jun 9, 2007, 11:37 AM   #13
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Nick wrote

Quote:
You can lead newvisitors to this Sony Forum at Steves-Digicams in the wrong direction.


Nick the only people misleading new visitors about the H9 is yourself, since May 1st there has been 106 threads started here on the Sony forum out of these you have started 53 trying to forcefeed the H9 as the greatest superzoom digicam down peoples throat.

Of the pro reviews so far that have been posted on the web testing the H9 for what it is, you have ridiculed the reviewers making out you know better than them, the fact is these people are reviewing cameras all the time and have the facility's to carry out such tests, but no you know better.

Also how do you explain the 150 petition complaining about the H9/H7 ???:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=23531976

I suppose you recon these 150 are wrong as well as the pro reviewers, sheese give me a break Nick, your over the top.

Sintares, well written reply, but you would get more sense out of a brick wall than to try and get through to Nick, this guy is in denial of any facts presented.




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Old Jun 9, 2007, 12:03 PM   #14
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Wirraway, I guess you're right! I should never have tried thinking for myself. I should have listened to the nay sayers. I need to go ahead and just throw my H9 in the trash can and tell Sony to stop selling them.

During the last 35 to 40 years I have bought, and used a lot of different cameras. All of them did the job to varing degrees. Not a one of them was perfect.

I see Nick talk about finding a camera that does the things that he likes and then I see you trying to tell him that he's wrong to like it or brag about it because there are others that don't like it. What gives?

Is this the last camera I'll ever buy? I sure hope not. I hope to live long enough to see the continued evolution of digital photography.
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Old Jun 9, 2007, 12:31 PM   #15
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CB401,

I'm also glad I don't let others make my decisions for me either. Especially "pro" reviewers. If had listened to their *way* overly negative reviewsI would have missed out owning the best all around ultrazoom I have ever had. I very much like the H9. It's given me shots I would have missed with the other UZs that I have due to the much it's better focusing speed and tracking and the better zoom (15X). I feel it is the best all around and most fun UZ thatI own now. If I walk out the door with one camera in hand, the H9 is the one.:-)

Mercurycu

Olympus C-2100, Olympus C-700, Olympus C-740, Canon S1 IS, Nikon 8800, Panasonic FZ20, Panasonic FZ30, Panasonic FZ5, Sony H1, Sony H5, and Sony H9
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Old Jun 9, 2007, 5:13 PM   #16
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Wirraway wrote:
Quote:

Also how do you explain the 150 petition complaining about the H9/H7 ???:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=23531976

I suppose you recon these 150 are wrong as well as the pro reviewers, sheese give me a break Nick, your over the top.
Thanks to all participating in this debate.

The truth always shines through in such debates.

Wirraway,

One man ( or woman )with the truth, is a majority of one.

I don't care if 1,500 made a petition about the H9, some wanting a 'firmware' update. Do you know that Sony was very upfront about its Bionz processor. Read their press releases.

It is one issue I thought would save me alot of PP time, and you know, It really has. All I need on 99.9% of my H9 images is Auto Levels, and maybe Focus Magic in Photoshop Elements 4.

Please re-read DPReview's H9 conclusion, They like the H9...'You will be pleasently surprised'....etc.

And please refrain from making an inaccurate characterization of my participation on this great Sony Forum. I have always respected you and your opinions.

Have you looked at my Steel Drum images?

Regards to All,

Nicholas
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Old Jun 9, 2007, 9:54 PM   #17
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Name of this thread is "H9 Reality Check"

DPreview's image quality ratings:

H2: 8.5 - (6 megapixels)
H5: 8.0 - (7 megapixels)
H9: 7.0 - (8 megapixels)

DPreview overallrating:

H2: Highly recommended

H5: Highly recommended

H9: Above Average

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh9/



On H9Image quality DPreview reports:



"But look a little closer - particularly at a pixel level - and you start to see the compromises involved in squeezing a 31-465mm equiv. lens and 8 million pixels into such a compact form. We're not sure if it's noise reduction, poor demosaicing or over-compression, but viewed on-screen the images just don't look very pleasant, with visible artefacts and more than a fair share of optical issues."

"On the optical side the main issues are chromatic aberration, purple fringing, particularly at the wide end of the zoom, and excessive noise reduction. The latter causes smearing of low contrast detail (hair, foliage etc) even at low ISO settings and can add a watercolor-like dappling to out of focus areas and other soft details."







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Old Jun 9, 2007, 10:17 PM   #18
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Wirraway,

Do you believe DPReview has an Absolute Measure of image quality against which all cameras are measured against?

This is in effect what you are saying when you report their image quality ratins on the H2 ,H5 and H9, which occured over a period of time.

If they do use such an Absolute Measure of image quality, their reviews would be useless, and they have enough integrity that they would admit it.

The only Absolute Measure is in the PRINT, Period.

And upto 8x10, a properly captured H9 image does very, very well.

What else would anyone expect from a $479 camera?

I expected more, much more: Fast AF, Accurate Exposure, True Color, Fast Review, Good usable Built-in Flash, Face Detection, HD TV Slide Shows, etc.

Yes I expected all this too and as far as my H9 is concerned, I got all of this and am very satisfied.

Regards,

Nicholas
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Old Jun 9, 2007, 10:36 PM   #19
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same old nick.

Is that you in the picture?

BTW. i settled with H2. not a bad price from the local sony store. IQ is good enough and much better than my olym c765.

Anyways, we're happy that you're happy with your H9. Later
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Old Jun 10, 2007, 6:07 AM   #20
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Wirraway wrote:
Quote:
On H9Image quality DPreview reports:



"But look a little closer - particularly at a pixel level - and you start to see the compromises involved in squeezing a 31-465mm equiv. lens and 8 million pixels into such a compact form. We're not sure if it's noise reduction, poor demosaicing or over-compression, but viewed on-screen the images just don't look very pleasant, with visible artefacts and more than a fair share of optical issues."

"On the optical side the main issues are chromatic aberration, purple fringing, particularly at the wide end of the zoom, and excessive noise reduction. The latter causes smearing of low contrast detail (hair, foliage etc) even at low ISO settings and can add a watercolor-like dappling to out of focus areas and other soft details."






Wirraway,

You are missing the point. Pixels mean nothing if you can't see it on the PRINT.

And DPReviw states 'We're not sure if it's...' talking about the H9's Pixels.

Not Sure? I will tell you what it is:

The combination of Image Stabilization and 8MP on the sensor. If you don't use the H9 properly, you can get water color effects at Zoomed images at small size. This is similar to shooting moving people at slow shutter speeds, you get a bit of blur on the subject. But on the H9 the Image Stabilization affects the entire image making it look watery if YOU DO NOT USE the H9 Properly.

If you get a magnifying glass and look at a newspaper photo, you will see dots, not the image intended for you to see. Same goes with pixels.

Caddie,

Yes that is me. Please ignore the grey coloring about the head. I am still waiting on a response from Sony Tech Support on this issue.

Regards to All,

Nicholas


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