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Old Nov 24, 2004, 11:27 PM   #11
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kski wrote:
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As for the F8, if you know how to take pictures then changing the f-stop isn't so terrible a thing and it produces top picture quality, so it's worth moving your finger a couple times.┬*The Canon takes the photos in F4 so you can't compare their f4 photos to Sony's f8.┬* If you took photos in f8 in the G6 I'm sure they'd be much worse than the Sony's f8.[/size]
- Im quite....
- Maybe Steve made a mistake by advising to go for the Canon isntead of Sony....agree with you.
- I do not mind moving my fingers to change fstops - but I think for the price, I need a trusty camera....maybe the V1 or P150 could produce the same results at lower cost.
- How do you know Canon at f8 is "much worse" than Sony at the same fstop??? -
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 11:56 PM   #12
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lol, just so you all know...changing the f-stop effects more than the 'sharpness' of the focused area...

going from f8 to f5.6 would decrease the DOF, making part of the shot OOF...this may allow part of the shot in sharp focus, but put anything far away from your focus point OOF...not always wat you want

kski...larger type has the same effect on how people read your posts as capitals...

aaaand, last but not least...sharpness out of the camera doesn't mean anything...

most, if not all digital cameras, need PC sharpening to get to full potential.

so basically, the sample photos, just show that the V3 applies less in camera sharpening than the G6.

and no, i don't work for canon....lol

Vito
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 1:55 PM   #13
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There is nothing wrong with the P150. It is wonderfully pocketable and takes great shots. I certainly considered it seriously when I was looking to buy a digital. For me, I knew that all point and shoots are afflicted with underpowered built-in flashes. So, I wanted a camera with a hotshoe. That feature became the essential one for me. For other people, portability might have been more important.

The 'sweet spot' is something that applies to all cameras. If you want to maximize lens performance, you know that it works better at one stop than another. But that doesn't eliminate the other stops. You may have different artistic reasons form wanting to open the lens up (to blur the background and therefore highlight the subject or to increase shutter speed to stop action). Those are decisions that photographers must make all the time. If I stopdown to increase DOF then I lose shutter speed...so...you compromise in order to get the shot.

The P150 has a 'sweet-spot'. The Canon G6 has a 'sweet-spot'. All of the lenses on my film cameras have a 'sweet-spot" too.Users will find it and always have that option when they are shooting. It isn't a limitation to understand how to handle your gear and what settings achieve the best results.

Why did I choose the V3? Well, I mentioned that I wanted a hotshoe for a more powerful flash..that was one reason. But the other reason was that, with 7Mp i could finally get 100% benefit from my Olympus P-400 dye-sub printer which prints a 7.7Mp image. So, I looked at the 7Mp cameras (The P-150 and the V3) instead of the lower resolution models.

Why Sony and not Canon or some other brand? Well,I have always been a Sony guy...from my first Mavica FD7...FD-91...D700...Cybershot F55...F505.

And my last reason was the Zeiss lens. All of my cameras...film and digital have Zeiss lenses. Even my eyeglasses and binoculars are Zeiss. I like the Ziess 'look'.

So, as you see, all of my reasons are strictly personal. They probably won'tmatch your most important deciding features. SO, I don't have a good reason why you should upgrade. If you are happy with your current camera...fine. May it give you years of good service!

Many of us end up on the 'upgrade merry-go-round' and end up buying new cameras because the marketing machine convinces us that we can't live without the latest and greatest. Convincing us to upgrade every year or so is the only way the camera manufacturers can continue to make money.

The cameras that Ifind the most enjoyable to use (from a photographer's point of view) are myZeiss Ikon classic cameras...a 1949 Super Ikonta folder; a 1952 Ikoflex TLR, a 1965 Contaflex super. What would these camera companies do to stay in business if the built a camera that you wouldn't 'upgrade' for 60 years!

So, if you are happy with your current camera, stay with it. there is no need to upgrade at every technical itteration and, if YOU want to 'upgrade' then you don't have to jump at the fanciest and flashiest. If you like the P-150..get it.
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 3:16 PM   #14
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photosbyvito wrote:
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going from f8 to f5.6 would decrease the DOF, making part of the shot OOF...this may allow part of the shot in sharp focus, but put anything far away from your focus point OOF...not always wat you want

Vito
Hi Vito,

Dont laugh at us.....:-)

I knowsmaller fnumbershas a shallowDOFandlarger fstopsincrease therange of sharpness.....so, my only objection and criitique about theSonyV3 isthat shots taken atf8lack of sharpness -despitein theory, they should be sharp...evenoutdoor shots in sunny saysdo not look good - according to thesample shots postedon this site and Dcresource - also Steves and Jeff K. recommended not to use the V3 at fnumbers larger than 5.6..........IMO the V3 could be a greatcamera, because ofitstons of features, but itfails for some reason orother.....maybe a firmware upgrade could solve the problem....

Thats why I think the G6 is better....:-)but not better than FZs 12X LEICA Zoom.






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Old Nov 25, 2004, 4:30 PM   #15
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Part of your argument must be that the V3 is significantly WORSE in this situation than other cameras but the truth of the matter is that it is all relative. If the V3 at f8 isn't as good as the V3 at f5.6..it is STILL the V3 that has taken the good picture.

From actual use, I can tell you that the issues at f8 are difficult to notice. You HAVE to have another shot side by side to be aware of the difference. If you don't then it isn't aproblem.

I am quite used to having to deal with the realities of photography. If shutter speed is too low (because of low light) I know that I have the option of using either a flash or a tripod. But I don't say the camera is no good because of that!

If f8 isn't optimum for the V3 (and it isn't optimum for other cameras as well) I work around it. Problem solved...just like using a tripod whenI need to.
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 4:31 PM   #16
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Meryl Arbing wrote:
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The 'sweet spot' is something that applies to all cameras. If you want to maximize lens performance, you know that it works better at one stop than another. But that doesn't eliminate the other stops. You may have different artistic reasons form wanting to open the lens up (to blur the background and therefore highlight the subject or to increase shutter speed to stop action). Those are decisions that photographers must make all the time. If I stopdown to increase DOF then I lose shutter speed...so...you compromise in order to get the shot.
Thats the problem, as I wrote in my former post, shots taken at fnumbers larger than 5.6 tend to be blurred, too soft, like"out-of-focus"......so if I take the decision to increase the range of sharpness, Im gonna looking for smaller apertures (larger fnumers), but if the V3 fails in taking decent shots at this settings, my "photograpic needs" wont be satisfied



Quote:
Why did I choose the V3? Well, I mentioned that I wanted a hotshoe for a more powerful flash..that was one reason. But the other reason was that, with 7Mp i could finally get 100% benefit from my Olympus P-400 dye-sub printer which prints a 7.7Mp image. So, I looked at the 7Mp cameras (The P-150 and the V3) instead of the lower resolution models. Why Sony and not Canon or some other brand? Well, I have always been a Sony guy...from my first Mavica FD7...FD-91...D700...Cybershot F55...F505.
Those are strong reasons....agree with you
Quote:
And my last reason was the Zeiss lens. All of my cameras...film and digital have Zeiss lenses. Even my eyeglasses and binoculars are Zeiss. I like the Ziess 'look'. So, as you see, all of my reasons are strictly personal. They probably won't match your most important deciding features. SO, I don't have a good reason why you should upgrade. If you are happy with your current camera...fine. May it give you years of good service!
Like me, I bought the FZ10 because of the LEICA glass -I┬┤veneverhad a Leicacamera, but my cousin who is a professional photographerhas one, and he always talks to me aboutLeica cameras and alsoitshigh qualitylens.....so,whenPanasonic released the12XLeica zoom camera, .....Iplaced my order at amazon.com and got one of them.


Quote:
So, if you are happy with your current camera, stay with it. there is no need to upgrade at every technical itteration and, if YOU want to 'upgrade' then you don't have to jump at the fanciest and flashiest. If you like the P-150..get it.
Im not planning to get the P150...I like that compact camerabut I just only mentioned it to compare the V3 with a similar andCHEAPER 7MP camera.....thats all.

Im pleased with my purchase and Im gonna stay with it for a long time (I hope)

:-)




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Old Nov 25, 2004, 6:42 PM   #17
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Oh No, it isn't that any shot at f5.6 or higher immediately gets blurry. There is a small, almost imperceptible softening of the shot which you can only detect if you have another shot (done at a wider fstop) for direct comparison. Other than that, you can't say the shots at f8 are 'blurry' just a bit softer.

A single photo, standing on its own, doesn't appear out of focus at all!

We are talking about relative sharpness across the full aperture range which is something that every camera, even the Fz10 with excellent Leica glass, would experience.

Try it! Take a shot at f4 and then the same scene at the extreme end of your aperture range and then compare the two prints side by side. There will be a difference but that doesn't mean that the camera is defective.
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 7:25 PM   #18
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Well, kski I don't think I'd gree with your statements about biased reviews etc. I certainly don't work for Canon (or any other camara manufacturer) and never owned any Canon camera, digital or otherwize. Just so you know before you've acused me. I had the chance to play with the V3 recently, it's a nice camera, but so is the G6 and many other prosumer cams out there. When reading reviews you should keep in mind that they are done by living people not machines and people have their personal preferences, that's why there are so many cameras out there. You like your eqipment-fine, but don't get irritated just because it didn't get the best review. I'd be a bit careful when putting subjects in my posts as well if I were you. If anything Steve is always careful in his critics towards cameras. I don't think the V3 got an overall bad review at all.
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 9:04 PM   #19
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:?I dont have a preference to sony or cannon but I must say I am puzzled by the conclusion especially if I look at the comparison photos.

I exploded each of the photo to full size on separate browser windows and tried to compare with an open mind. Almost all of the time the sony v3 looks clearer and sharper at least to my unprofessional eye.

As an example open up the harbour pictures look around the boat named "last call". Clearly the sony is clearer and sharper to me.

Same with the bricks on the F8 picture although the differnce is not as great as the harbor. I feel the gaps between the bricks are a little bit more pronounced on the V3 than the G6

Maybe there are other things that professional reviewers have spotted to pick the G6. If anybody knows a specific spot in one of the comparison photos that would favour the G6 I would like to know so I can maybe get a understanding of why the G6 is consodered so great.

BTW. I have played with the G6 and was dissappointed with its performance under indoor lighting condition compared to my UZ2100.
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 9:13 PM   #20
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Meryl Arbing wrote:
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We are talking about relative sharpness across the full aperture range which is something that every camera, even the Fz10 with excellent Leica glass, would experience.

Try it! Take a shot at f4 and then the same scene at the extreme end of your aperture range and then compare the two prints side by side. There will be a difference but that doesn't mean that the camera is defective.

Today I took a couple of shots at mi office at f8, and both look fine.....I couldnt notice loss of sharpness.....maybe in prints it looks different.....I would like to try but I ran-out-of ink....maybe this weekend I'll replace my cartridges.....

On the other side, I really exagerate about the "like out-of-focus" images.......I have to recognize that....but actually pics taken at f8 looks softer....and this issue is noticeable....if you compare f5.6 vs f8 shots.

Anyway, thanks for letting me meddle in this forum.....Im a Pana user as you've noticed by mi nick and also the avatar.

I'll try to post some shots taken at f4 and f8 stops with my FZ10.....maybe a couple of hours later...now I have to go.

warmth regards,
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