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Old Nov 27, 2004, 6:08 AM   #31
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photosbyvito wrote:
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and again, sharpness out of the camera doesn't necessarily mean higher quality!

the dSLRs sometimes require a large amount of PC sharpening, but the detail in their RAW files is WAYY beyond either of these two cameras!

Vito
Hi Vito,

I have a doubt about the sharpness - I thought sharpness depends on the lens quality, I've heard one the main features on the Leica glass is the "Razor Sharp" - I know sharpness also isinfluenced by the internal processor of the camera, but which ofthem does play theprincipal role?? could you clarify this issue?? :?




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Old Nov 27, 2004, 9:41 AM   #32
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This is certainly a controversial topic! For what it's worth, here's my two pen'th.

Firstly, some personal history. I'm about to embark on my 6th decade on this planet, so I've owned quite a few film cameras in my time, mostly SLR's from names such as Olympus and Nikon, so I'm used to slide film quality. In 2002 when prices became a little more reasonable, I decided to dip a toe into the digital arena by buying a Canon A40 (2Mp). I didn't expect the picture quality to get anywhere near that of slide film (nor did it), but the images viewed on my PC monitor were quite good. I preferred the smaller, lighter camera over my Nikon F601 and the bonus of being able to quickly view images, rather than wait for processing, was a big plus. Also, image correction and enhancement was clearly streets ahead of film. The downside? Poor LCD visibility in bright light and, for me, there is still no effective way to view high resolution images on a screen. TV screens are woefully inadequate, and even my high-res computer monitor can't deliver the detail I know to be in my 2Mp images, never mind anything higher. And as for printing, I don't even want to go down that expensive route!

So why do I find myself reading reviews and downloading endless megabytes of sample pictures? Looking to upgrade to a 7Mp camera when I know I won't be able to see the difference without zooming in to the tiniest details? I convince myself it's so I can heavily crop a picture without losing too much resolution. This is true, but at the end of the day, it's just satisfying to buy and own something new!

But I digress... Being a Canon user I naturally began to investigate their products. I worked through the A series, then the S series but I was not convinced any of them would give me the improvement in performance and picture quality I was expecting. Then I discovered the G6. As I loaded down the first sample pictures I was amazed at the definition of foliage and other fine details. This was the one! This was what I wanted, I just needed a hands-on experience before I bought it. In my local camera shop a few doubts crept in. Yes, it felt nicely balanced in the hand but what about that pesky lens cap? Straight down the first drain if Sod's Law has anything to do with it! Or blowing around in the wind if you attach it by its tether. Then there was that strange On switch with its safety button. How many times would I miss a quick shot because I accidentally put the camera into the review mode? Now this is where I get on topic...

The friendly camera shop man suggested I take a look at the new Sony DSC-V3. Sony?? They use those expensive, proprietory Memory Sticks, don't they? Yes, but it also uses Compact Flash (which I have quite a lot of for my Canon). So I pick the camera up. Wow! That's a massive LCD. Feels comfortable too, sits nicely in the hand, quite light as well. Controls seem well placed and logical, nicely laid out and (big plus, this) a protective shutter over the lens (like my A40) rather than a fiddly lens cap. Good vibes, like it a lot, and it's black! More professional looking.Decide to go home and read a few more reviews and download another several megabytes of samples. Then... disaster... The picture quality is compromised at F8, which the camera favours in its auto modes. And there's vignetting at wideangle, something I might expect on a cheapo digicam, but not at this price point.

So now I'm in as much of a quandry as before. Despite my pre-conceptions, I like the V3 a lot. It definitely trumps the G6 in terms of picture sharpness at the F5.6 setting and I can cope with this foible by using Aperture Priority. By all accounts, the low light focussing capabilities are superior to the G6, even if the in-built flash isn't as powerful. But what about vignetting? How do you manage that? Do I always have to remember to jog the zoom control to take the lens off wideangle?

BTW, a question for V3 owners. If I set the F number in Aperture Priority mode, does the camera remember this setting when it's next switched on?

So there you have it. I'm still trying to make up my mind. :?

Sorry it became a bit like War and Peace!



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Old Nov 27, 2004, 11:28 AM   #33
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Ganda Asked: "If I set the F number in Aperture Priority mode, does the camera remember this setting when it's next switched on?"

The answer is yes, the fstop that was selected when the camera was turned off is retained when the you turn it back on BUT, in Aperture Priority mode you have to re-SET the aperture by pressing the jog dial button when you power back up. This forces you to check the aperture so that it is the one you really want and not end up with one that was left over from the last session.

One thing I noticed about the V3 is that you don't really have access to f2.8 in anything except the widest angle shots. (7mm or 34mm equivalent)

Once you zoom to8mm (39mm eq) you drop to f3.2.

At 14mm (68mm eq) the maximum fstop is f3.5 and at 21mm (102mm eq) and above the maximum aperture is f4.0

However, this probably isn't much different than other zoom digitals. I would expect that the Canon G6 only allows f2.0 atfull wide angle too! Only the most expensive zooms have consistent maximum fstop throughout the zoom range.

Why is this important. The vignetting occurs only at the widest angle and the widest aperture which is also where you get the most PF. It is probably good not to rely on it too much.

In the end, if you browse the Canon forums around the web, you will discover that many of the same issues bother those users too. They complain about soft corners and vignetting in macro mode and wide angle and they notice that shots at smaller apertures are not as nice as the larger aperture settings. So what does this tell us. Well the first thing is that Canon users aren't much different from Sony users. They have the same concerns and confront the same issues.

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Old Nov 27, 2004, 12:52 PM   #34
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Meryl Arbing wrote:
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One thing I noticed about the V3 is that you don't really have access to f2.8 in anything except the widest aperture. (7mm or 34mm equivalent) Once you zoom to 8mm (39mm eq) you drop to f3.2.
Im not sure, but I believe that is because of the sensor size, the bigger sensor size, the bigger should be the lensin order to keeplower fnumbers through the zoom range.

Pana FZ20, FZ15 and FZ10use1/2.5" sensors, witha diameter of 10.2mm - if these camerastry to uselarger sensors,bigger lenses will be required to allow f2.8 through the zoom range...thats why the FZ20 has the same sensor size as the FZ10.

Canon and Sony use 1/1.8" sensors (diameter=14.1mm)....so, I guess, it is not so easy to keep an aperture of 2.0.

Anyway, thanks for the information, none of the reviews recently posted,offers that kind of details....I really thought the lowest fnumber on the V3 could be used at 60mmat the very least.





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Old Nov 27, 2004, 5:14 PM   #35
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Ganda, I was just curious with all the slow steady calculated research you have been doing over the decades, why are you spending so much time over the the G6 and V3 when for a hundred bucks more you can get the Canon Rebel SLR with lens which blows away any G6 or V3 picture. I know to each his own.. but.. I was just curious..
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Old Nov 27, 2004, 10:57 PM   #36
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stallen wrote:
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OK, I'm not a pro like Steve, but it sure does seem like Steve's final conclusion should have been more like... "If you are choosing between the G6 and the V3 and you want the sharpest picture possible then pick the V3, but you'll have to have to make sure the aperture is less than f8. If changing the aperture is too much trouble for you, then you can get really good shots from the G6... just not the best of the two."

By the way, where is Steve?
When I said "sharpest" I was actually implying picture quality (including noise, color accuracy etc.). It really does seem obvious that the V3's picture quality is superior to the G6. But hey, let's leave the G6 out of it... Check out this review on the V3...
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/came...27/page_1.html
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Old Nov 28, 2004, 12:42 AM   #37
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Hey thanks for that link, never been to that site before. Does anyone know which is better the Olympus C7000 Zoom, or the Sony DSC-V3? I saw beautiful pictures of the Olympus on www.pbase.com but there are not enough of the V3 photos. I find a lot of cameras have a gray tinge to them when people are the subject, but the Sony's have much better skin colors. More true to life. Not sure though about how this new olympus does for people pictures. Anyone know?

Hmm.....Sony V3?..... Olympus C700?......hmmm.....:O
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Old Nov 28, 2004, 10:41 AM   #38
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Concerning depth of field of digital cameras, apparently the F numbers are not directly comparable to those of 35mm cameras. Check this site for more on this:

http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/dof/
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Old Nov 29, 2004, 12:34 PM   #39
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Steve, where are you?!? Why don't we hear from you?
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 12:10 AM   #40
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The www.dcresource.com review at the end says:

How does the V3 compare to the PowerShot G6? They perform quite similarly in most areas, with the V3 having sharper photos with more saturated colors.

I totally agree!
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