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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:44 AM   #1
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I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but when I looked at all the comparison photos of the Sony V3 and Canon G6, the Sony beat it hands down! Sony pictures were much sharper and the contrast was beautiful. Yet at the end of the review he says that you should go for the Canon. What's with that???!! Does Canon pay Steves-Digicams and DCResource to recommend Canon over other companies? I'm beginning to see that. Anyway, the Sony DSC-V3's photos are amazing! I will post some of my own soon. And take a look at the comparison photos. The Sony beats the pants off the canon!!!
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 8:41 AM   #2
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I own the V3 too. What has become apparent over the past couple of weeks is that f8 is not the optimum aperture for the V3 and that the images taken at that fstop may appear soft in comparison to shots taken at other fstops. This seems to be the result of diffraction at the smallest aperture setting. Fortunately, this is not a major problem since you can simply shoot in AP mode and avoid f8 altogether.

Is the V3 the only camera to experience this problem? No. If you look at some of the Canon forums you will find that Canon G6 owners are also complaining that shots taken at the higher fstops are less than satisfactory and that shots taken at wideangle have softness at the edges. The issue is probably the same for themas with Sony V3 usersand also, possible to work around it fairly easily.

Aside from those issues, what it appears is that the images from both the G6 and the V3 are remarkably similar in quality. This is why we have many people who see the sample shots differently. Some see the Canon as better and some see the V3 as better. This is usually an indication that they are pretty close in quality.

What it means is that each person can be happy with their purchase and not have to look jealously or fearfully at the 'other guy' to see whether he has a 'better' camera. Fortunately, nobody has the perfect camera and every brand has something that annoys their users.

If people want to really see something interesting, they should stop comparing the V3 to the G6 and compare both of these cameras to the little Sony P-150. It has many fewer features than the larger 7Mp cameras but , for picture quality, it beats them all!
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 10:31 AM   #3
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kski wrote:
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Does Canon pay Steves-Digicams and DCResource to recommend Canon over other companies?

C'mon guys...

I'm sure that the reviews are as unbiased as possible here. No camera is going to be perfect in all conditions.

By pointing out areas that need improvement, the reviewers are doing us a favor (so that manufacturers will try to make improvements in future models, which we will benefit from down the road).

Competition (and reviews pointing out differences) is good for the consumer.

Does a reviewer's opinion on how it compares to another model mean that it's a bad camera? Of course not.Each user will have different requirements on what they need, for their shooting conditions, and image quality is always subjective.

It's fine to disagree with an opinion. But,implying thatsomeoneis being paid to slant reviews is "stepping over the line".

I'd suggesttrying toavoidgetting personal when we disagree on something.






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Old Nov 24, 2004, 11:25 AM   #4
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I would certainly not suggest Steve was on drugs or on Canon's payroll, but I'm also a bit surprised by his concluding statements.

To me, the image quality of the V3/G6 was very similar in Steve's comparison. Definitely a draw, to my eyes. Both cameras also had similar amounts of red-eye in flash portraits.

So it comes down to features:

pro G6 features
---------------
stronger flash
faster lens f/2.0
no occasional unwarranted selection of f/8
flip-out (2") screen

pro V3 features
---------------
much better movie mode (unlimited VGA/30fps)
superior laser hologram autofocus
night framing
nightshot and IR capability
larger screen (2.5")

(You might notice I didn't list the 1/2000 second shutter speed issue of the V3. That's because the G6 has a similar limit: 1/2000s is only available between f/4 and f/8. See the G6 specifications here: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canong6/page2.asp)

Another wash-out I suppose, although it could swing clearly in one way or another depending on where your priorities are. This would be a reasonable conclusion for the review.

But to state "the V3 is not the all-around digicam that its specifications imply, and I would recommend that you instead consider the Canon PowerShot G6, the best of breed camera in this class" is in my opinion unnecessarily harsh.

BTW Steve, you stated on page 2 of your review that the V3 only does USB 1.1. You might want to fix that. And perhaps mention that both cameras have similar shutter speed limits.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 1:57 PM   #5
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Again, as I said, (and it was not personal), the review is definitely biased when the reviewer is telling you to get the "Canon" instead of the Sony. That makes it appear that they are biased to Canon, and it makesany intelligent personwonder why!!

I think you need to look again at the comparison photos, and it's not a matter of personal taste at all. Enlarge them both and you will see that the Sony's is Sharper and has better Contrast. Put glasses on if you need to. There is a clear difference and the Sony has better image quality. There is no denying that and it doesn't matter what personal preference you have. Sharp is Sharp, is Sharp is Sharp. Look at the leaves, at the writing on the signs. The Sony is much much sharper.
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 3:31 PM   #6
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kski wrote:
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Again, as I said, (and it was not personal), the review is definitely biased when the reviewer is telling you to get the "Canon" instead of the Sony. That makes it appear that they are biased to Canon, and it makesany intelligent personwonder why!!

I think you need to look again at the comparison photos, and it's not a matter of personal taste at all. Enlarge them both and you will see that the Sony's is Sharper and has better Contrast. Put glasses on if you need to. There is a clear difference and the Sony has better image quality. There is no denying that and it doesn't matter what personal preference you have. Sharp is Sharp, is Sharp is Sharp. Look at the leaves, at the writing on the signs. The Sony is much much sharper.
What about the almost useless f8 stop....what do you think about this issue, even Jeff K. on Decresource mention this issue....shots taken with an aperture of 8.0 looks soft - lack of definition - like "out-of-focus" ......Particullarly,I wouldnt pay around $650 for acamera that is only capable of taking sharp, sharp, sharpimages at f4.0.

You shouldnt be angry with Steve but with Sony for making this so so camera.

BTW, why do you set so big letters??? it seems as you were shouting at us.


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Old Nov 24, 2004, 4:22 PM   #7
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I wouldn't say that f8 is 'useless' on the V3. I have used it quite successfully in outside shots. Every lens has a 'sweet spot' where it's performance is maximized. Rarely is this at either end of a zoom range.

In some cameras, the wide angle end shows vignetting and softening at the edges. In others, the far end of the zoom is less sharp than the mid-range.

What I have found is that you actually need to compare shots side by side (taken at different apertureson the same camera) to see the differences. It is very subtle and most people, if you don't tell them what to look for, never notice.

So, we are not comparing the V3 to any other camera but we are comparing the V3 to itself at different settings. Since you have the ability to choose what your camera does. (You ARE the photographer after all! and you can pick what aperture you are going to use.) you always can DO SOMETHING about what you consider a problem!

What we need to knownow is "What is the 'sweet spot' of the V3? What is the aperture that provides the best performance? I would expect that it is not f4.

At wide angle the V3 has the following fstops available:

2.8, 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, 5.6, 6.3, 7.1, and 8.0

Fully zoomed, it loses the first three.

I would expect that the 'sweet spot' is probably f5.6 but I would have to do some testing to confirm that but it will be close to that. Other than that, people probably won't be able to pick out a shot done at f8 from a stack of prints anyway.

I, personally, don't worry if there are some people out there who like the G6...or who like Canon as a company better than they like Sony as a company...it doesn't prevent me from taking pictures. :|


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Old Nov 24, 2004, 9:16 PM   #8
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Wow, relax people! I also own the V3 and I love it. I know it's not perfect, but neither is any other camera. Digital cameras have only been popular for a few years and I'm sure we will see plenty of improvements over the next few years! Remember what cell phones werelike only a few years after they were popular?:lol:
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Old Nov 24, 2004, 11:42 PM   #9
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For fz10_user:

Woe! Relax, do you work for Canon or something??!!! The font provided here goes all the way up to "7", I'm using "4". Since when is using larger font "shouting"? I've heard about capitol letters being shouting online, but not what size font you use. No one is angry. I'm simply saying that the review seems very biased because it tells you to get the Canon but the comparison photos clearly show Sony as the winner. As for the F8, if you know how to take pictures then changing the f-stop isn't so terrible a thing and it produces top picture quality, so it's worth moving your finger a couple times. The Canon takes the photos in F4 so you can't compare their f4 photos to Sony's f8. If you took photos in f8 in the G6 I'm sure they'd be much worse than the Sony's f8.
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Old Nov 25, 2004, 12:19 AM   #10
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Hi Meryl,
You have a respectable opinion on the V3, but there's something I do not understand about - why should people buy the V3 instead of a cheaper camera?.....as you pointed out, the V3 has a wide fstops range available, but if I can not use all to get decent shots, most of them become useless.....moreover, if you find the "sweet spot" - in your case =f5.6, you practically reduce your fstops to just one...sinceI suppose you are gonna shoot most of time at this setting,....on the other side, the P150 is also a 7MP has four fstops (f5.6 included), the same fastest s.speeds (1/1000 -manual, 1/2000-auto),3x optical zoom equivalent to 114mm and a very good image quality (pretty the same as the V3, according to sample shots).....why would I go for the V3??? I see only three significative differences: the hot shoe, 4X and the IR capabilities.....those features are enough to go for the V3??? since for me, the most important thing in a DC is the image quality - and both have pretty the same quality - even the P150 is a bit less noisy than the V3 - and the sharpness and colors are almost the same.
Maybe you can clarify my mind and explain me why did buy the V3 instead of the P150. - also the V1 could be a good cheaper option - but only 5MP.
I think the same for the FZs - the new FZ20 is quite the same as the FZ10, just a couple of additonal features... I do not see a strong reason to upgrade my camera.
:?
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