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Old Dec 27, 2004, 10:02 AM   #1
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I really don't know what and how you people compare pictures of these two cameras???

In Steve samples which I have seen (examples img_2304 for G6), G6 have clearest and much better picture quality with less noise than V3.

Just look the tree details and shadows on house and below lieves.


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Old Dec 27, 2004, 10:09 AM   #2
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Oh boy, here we go again...:P
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 10:18 AM   #3
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We have had the chance to address the issue of the relative merits of tje G6 and the V3. We have seen that, with the various side by side comparison shots that different people see different things. Those who are partial to Canon see the Canon shots as better and, those who favor the Sony see the V3 shots as better.

What this usually indicates is that the image quality of the two cameras are probably so close that the difference in perception comes down to wishful thinking...if I want the Sony V3 to produce better pictures; I WILL see the Sony shots as better.

This applies to image detail, noise...all the subjective components of the image.
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 2:20 PM   #4
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:-) oh no no... I don't want to start flamewar or something like that. I'm just wondered with some posts here. That's all.

Let's hold on example img_2304 for G6 and DSC00091 for V3. Just look at roof on the right side of building. G6 sample is much sharper. The same situation we have on windows, there we can see much more noise on V3 example... Than look on bottom in "Private Property" sign... on the V3 example you can't read "no trespassing" text isn't???

All of us people coming to this forum because love a good digital photography, not Sony or Canon digital cameras so I think we need to talk with real arguments.

Best regards for all of you and keep a good photo-work!
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 4:12 PM   #5
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Unfirtunately, it doesn't mean anything because the playing field of samples is never as level as it is made out to be.

"The problem withsample shotsis that there is a tendency to go 'cherry picking' which is selecting only those examples which appear to prove the person's preference. One person shows an example where the G6 is 'sharper' and another person shows a different example which shows the V3 as 'sharper'.

"If you look at the Sony and the Canon forums you will notice that owners of the V3 or the G6 all have issues. Neither camera is perfect and neither is superior.

"Those who prefer the Canon 'look and feel' will prefer the G6 samples...those that prefer the Sony 'look and feel' will prefer the V3 samples. The funny thing is that they can't imagine that the other people don't see whatthey see! "It is obvious, the <G6/V3> is superior!! Why can't you see that?" Well, the real world differences aren't that great.

"What is more important? The G6's movable LCD or the V3's Holographic low-light AF assist?

"What is more important, the G6's RAW transfer rate or the V3's incredibly fast response times?

"Both cameras have different feature sets but the end results..are not that different so, comparisons are a waste of time.
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 9:02 PM   #6
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Here is an example of 'cherry picking'...selecting examples that appear to prove a point of comparison.

This is a combination of two shots from a recent review site. One is from the Canon G6 and one is from the Sony V3.

One has lots of visible noise and purple fringing and the other appears remarkably clean. Which sidecame fromthe V3 and whichcame from the G6?




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Old Dec 28, 2004, 4:50 PM   #7
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Hi Meryl,
you are absolutely in right when you talking about "look and feel" and what some users prefer, but (I think) when we talk about differences we should point to facts if it is possible of course.
We can't make any comparison with pictures you send in last post because is obvious that this two pics don't have the same ISO values (if we talking about cameras in the same class). Regarding to that I make a point to two pictures made in the same lighting conditions and camera settings. In first example you can read some text but in second you don't. That's a fact, not "personal prefer" or "look and feel". In first example you can count any peace of roof but in second you can't... etc.

Best regards.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 5:24 PM   #8
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Whether the two shots were taken at different ISO is a matter of debate. According to the settings on the cameras YES they are different ISOs but since the ISO numbers on the cameras are inaccurate, it turns out that the two shots are actually taken at the SAME ISO.

The left half is from the Sony V3 and was taken at ISO 200

The right half was takenfrom the Canon G6 and was taken at ISO 100

(Note that the Canon is the LOWER ISO and should have less noise than the Sony.)

The samples were taken from the images posted at dcresource. Here are the actual links:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ca...ghtshot100.jpg

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/so...ghtshot200.jpg

You can download them or view them yourself if you want.

The point was not to show something about how great the V3 is over the G6 but to show that you can't make ANY determinations about the quality of a digital camera based on posted samples. You just don't have enough information about how the circumstances when they were taken.
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Old Dec 29, 2004, 2:05 AM   #9
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DuxX,

Those two pictures (img_2304 and DSC00091) are not comparable. They're not taken at the same focal length/field of view (12.7mm for G6, 13.9mm for V3) and not the same aperture (f/4 for G6 while f/8 for V3 which is apparently noticeably bad for V3). These two parameters alone already invalidate the comparison. Furthermore, if you compare the 2 pictures side by side you'd notice the "private property" sign was taken at different angles. That sign on G6's picture appears to be up to 50% larger horizontally than on the V3's, which is a HUGELY BIG difference.

Generally, sample images from Steve's reviews are definitely not useable for comparing different cameras because they're not taken in a controlled and repeatable condition/manner and all the important parameters like focal length, aperture, shutter speed (which is complicated by the different ISO sensitivity for each camera), camera position, focusing distance, object magnification, time and lighting level/angle are all completely different for each camera, not even closely enough, even in Steve's "side by side" comparisons. But they're still good for assessing the perceived general real life image quality like "look and feel" for each camera alone.

Meryl,

Can you see shadow noise on the V3's picture? If you can't, your monitor need to be re/calibrated. It definitely looks worse than that of the G6's - larger, more colourful and more profound - higher chrominance noise. But that is comparing two shadow areas of roughly the same darkness and discounting the environment factor.

It's dificult to compare the whole image though, because the G6 overexposed the highlight while the V3 underexposed the shadow. Still, the G6's lens has much worse colour aberration and more flare than the V3's.

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Old Dec 29, 2004, 7:55 AM   #10
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You see, this is the whole problem with comparison shots. It all boils down to how people can rationalize the results.They can always claim that thecomparisons are invalid because thesettings of thetwo camerasaren't 'identical' or that one shot was taken at a different angle or a different time of day or a different phase of the moon or a different wind direction.

Any deficienciesin their preferred camera are claimed to be the result of the non-identical settings and not anything to do with the camera.

What is means is that one camera will show superior results in one situation and another camera will show superior results in another situation and, in the end, we can't tell ANYTHING from comparison shots! The results are always unreliable and, because of the "Settings are not identical" objection any visible differences can be dismissed.

The point that needs to be made is that so-called 'real-world' comparison shotsare not very useful and can always be dismissed.

However, controlled testing can show real and significant differences between cameras.
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