Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digicam Help > Studio Lighting, Flash & Other

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 4, 2004, 1:36 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
minutephotos.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
"If you want to use a hot shoe flash besides studio strobes, you will need an adapter".
I was going to try and jimy rig an adapter by using the PC Hotshoe converter that I used for my camera when I was using a wired setup. But then I realized what the adapter is for. The units come with a 1/4" and a 1/8" headphone type plugs. The adapter would convert from this type of plug to a pc plug that would connect to the flash and tripod. I could probably make one there are only two wires I just don't want to cut my PC sync cable just yet.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"I have no interest in ever using my 420EX in a studio flash setup because it wouldalways fire at full power .

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"I am using them for just what they where designed to remotely fire studio strobes. The transmitter part that goes on the camera is very small, so if it has any power internal it must be a small 12vwatch battery. These batteries do have very low current much less that even a 9v battery. I doubt they could damage camera circutry, There is also no battery compartment on the transmitter which tells me you probably don't have to change this battery often again leading to low trigger current and probably a pretty safe system.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"In any case, it is what I will stick with until they or my camera simply stop working.:|
minutephotos.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4, 2004, 7:40 AM   #32
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

FYI

There's an international standard for the ISO hot-shoe and it testings: It's called 10330 which you can download here for a nominal fee (much cheaper than at the American ANSI): http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-serv...ore/store.html

Not only it defines what safe and low voltages are, but It also specifies that a camera hot-shoe and sync terminal must sink at least 100mA, while any external devices (flashes, studio strobes, etc...) must not source more than 30mA -> What this means is this provision allows for a camera hot-shoe (and sync terminal) to control at least 3 external devices in parallel.

BTW this spec also calls out ISO 516 which defines the synchronization timing between the shutter speed and the external flashes without which all external flashes will be 'firing' too late... :-)
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4, 2004, 11:46 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 171
Default

Well then, I guess Canon, Paramount Cords, Wein, Pocket Wizard, the manufacturer of JoesAuctions product, anecdotal evidence of some folks on the internet, etc, should all just be ignored. They all seem to acknowledge the danger or potential danger of exceeding the manufacturer's limitations. They go so far as to WARN (their caps, not mine) of using many of these devices, including their own, in parallel. So, as I've said before, IMO, it's up to the camera owner to decide his own amount of risk. You can rely on a 'standard' which may or may not be implemented by manufacturer's (I don't really know) - OR - you can adhere to the manufacturers for their own equipment and the suppliers of its accessories. Canon says 6V for the 10D and 250V for the 20D (which some Vivitars and other flashes still exceed - see below).

NHL posts the 'standard' link (that's fine - except nowhere in my Canon manuals, either camera or flash does it state that Canon uses or is bound by these 'standards'.), so I'll post these comments from the most widely referred to sources on these boards about the VERY EQUIPMENT many of us are using. Make your own choice and live with whatever consequences you may or may not get. I continue to believe it is somewhat foolhardy to merely post a 'standards' link suggesting that this means the manufacturers' limits are not to be taken seriously. Such advice could possibly result in undesirable consequences for those who don't know both sides of the story or don't do their own research to make an informed decision. Sorry for the length and continued beating of this near-dead horse, but here are just some of the statements by these manufacturers:

Wein Corp:
Quote:
SAFE SYNCS Safely reduces any electronic flash source from up to 400 volts to less than 6 volts to the camera sync input. This is absolutely mandatory for all high end and digital cameras.
Paramount Cord:
Quote:
Some cameras will misfire from a sync voltage, 6 Volts or greater. High voltage can also generate electro-magnetic interference or "noise", which can have various unwanted effects on camera operation. These can include metering errors, shutter speed errors, aperture size errors, shutter release failure, etc

High sync voltage is any voltage in excess of the 6 volts recommended by camera manufacturers. The voltage level determines the intensity of this spark. Sync voltages around 20 or 30 volts DC are not immediately dangerous; but can over time damage the camera's X-sync contact. Many older non-dedicated flash units, especially studio strobes, have sync voltage in excess of 50 to 60 volts DC. This voltage level is excessive for almost every currently made camera and lens.

Did you know that some Vivitar 283 and Vivitar 285 's have voltages of 300 Volts and above !

Even if your electronic camera strobe firing circuit can handle 250 volts, your TTL logic flash contacts may not. If you manage to short the low level logic voltage contacts to the strobe's higher voltage levels, you can again fry the electronics on some cameras.

How to Safely Use High Voltage Trigger Strobes
The obvious answer is don't use it,

Multiple Strobe Triggering
Another cautionary point concerns multiple strobe triggering. Some cameras have both a hot shoe and a PC connector. This option is to give you the choice of either-or, but generally not both! If you put both a hot shoe strobe and a PC cord strobe on the same camera at the same time, you may get into trouble too.

Summary:
Some older strobes provided as much as 600+ volts in their trigger circuits.

Many electronic cameras will suffer expensive damage if subjected to voltages over 250 volts, in some cases a lot less. Check your camera manual to be sure!

Don't use a high voltage trigger strobe on an electronic camera without using a protective adapter or "slave trigger" adapter.
Pocket Wizard:
Quote:
WARNING: NEVER hook a single
receiver up to a strobe and a camera (or any
two devices) at the same time.
JoesAuction Ebay:
Quote:
a recent test conducted by the manufacturer shows this transmitter is also safe to Canon series cameras that usually have a very low 6V trigger voltage tolerance.
flint350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4, 2004, 4:42 PM   #34
NHL
Senior Member
 
NHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333
Posts: 11,547
Default

I can't speak for folks selling wares on the internet... but if I do, I'll probably do the same :O
An ISO/IEC specs is not optional when you're an ISO-9000 certified company doing business throughout the world. It's a requirement! Where does Canon says 6V (can someone find it)? I'm sure someone will immediately forward it to the IEC regulating body for this violation...
http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...5&modelid=8772


BTW the ISO-10330 also call out for a Zener which will clamp the high voltage and prevent the camera from firing (and why the 10D manual says it might not fire in this condition on page 106 of the manual).
NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4, 2004, 4:51 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
minutephotos.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 344
Default

Come on Guys.... (Flint350 and NHL) Stop taking this SOOOOO serious, I am not. Most of us in this forum being I assume ametuer photographers don't even know what you are talking about. I have a degree from UC Davis in Computer Science Engineering and still don't get what you are talking about. We went through this before and I think we all understand that there is a possiblity that flash triggers with too high of a trigger voltage can damage your camera. I understand this possiblity and accept CastleDudes recommendation and have accepted responsibility for my actions as I am sure anyone else who buys Weinsafe, Joestriggers, the Interfit IR, PW, etc. have done. :blah:

So please guys you are both very knowledgeable photographers ands give great advice in these forums. Just know when to back off and let people make their own decisions. I value any advice I can get and accept everyone has their own opinions and preferences.

As for me, based on my own personal experience I think the triggers I purchased whether they damage my camera in a year or not are GRREAT. Had it not been for this forum I never would have discovered those hard to fine little cheap triggers.

Oh did I mention they are cheap too... :lol:
minutephotos.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4, 2004, 8:16 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 171
Default

minutephotos.com wrote:
Quote:
Come on Guys.... (Flint350 and NHL) Stop taking this SOOOOO serious, I have a degree from UC Davis in Computer Science Engineering and still don't get what you are talking about. We went through this before and I think we all understand that there is a possiblity that flash triggers with too high of a trigger voltage can damage your camera. I understand this
I think I made my point clear then and am not sure what it is you don't understand. You admit to understanding my point.

Quote:
So please guys you are both very knowledgeable photographers ands give great advice in these forums. Just know when to back off and let people make their own decisions.
Repeatedly, I have said this same thing - make your own decision. Just make it with all the facts. If no one wants the facts, that's fine. I have no personal stake in this or whether anyone else damages their equipment. My only intent was to present the opposing view as stated by the makers of the equipment.


Quote:
based on my own personal experience I think the triggers I purchased whether they damage my camera in a year or not are GRREAT.
So, I don't see your problem then, especially since I never suggested they would damage your camera. I even agreed with you earlier that they seem nice, are a good value and that the manufacturer says they meet the Canon safety standard. As for your non-concern about damage to your camera, that's up to you, not me and I never suggested otherwise. Maybe you should read my other posts in this thread and see what they say, as only this last one was in response to NHL's re-post of the ISO standards and how they possibly contradict the manufacturers' stated limits - now that may require a degree in electrical engineering, which I admit I don't have.

You all have fun now, I'm through. I don't want to be too serious - :blah: - right back at ya!
flint350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2004, 3:39 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
minutephotos.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 344
Default

After purchasing and using the triggers now for awhile I think they are great..

Here are some photos done with wireless triggers on with two AB800's.
Attached Images
 
minutephotos.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2004, 3:41 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
minutephotos.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 344
Default

Photo two, Any sugestions to get even better. I use a Sekonic l358 wireless triggers from Joesauction and two AB800's.




Attached Images
 
minutephotos.com is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:34 PM.