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Old Sep 17, 2004, 4:31 PM   #61
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minutephotos,

If that question is directed to me, I would have a difficult time answering it. Personally, I made the decision to return the Interfit unit when it measured at 12V. Just a personal decision on risk-benefit basis. The ST-E2, which I own, does not work very well with Alien Bees - but I don't use it for that. I don't know much about the Ebay unit. I personally decided to go with the Pocket Wizard Plus kit and am extremely pleased with that, but it is expensive (about $350). Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
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Old Sep 17, 2004, 8:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
If that question is directed to me, I would have a difficult time answering it. Personally, I made the decision to return the Interfit unit when it measured at 12V.
That seems like the smart thing to do. I don't think I will be getting that one. Is the one referenced below any good? Has any one checked the sync voltage on this model?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dllViewItem&category=30087&item= 3835650860


I like the pocket wizzards too, but too expensive for now. It would be hard choosing betwwen those any the AB's wireless remote system. The Pocket wizzards also work with my sekonic meter.

For now I am picking up a Sigma 500 DG Super but they are on back order. With the above device I could get the Sigma off the camera. I would slave the Sigma to the AB and fire the AB with the above unit. Right? :roll:
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Old Sep 17, 2004, 10:21 PM   #63
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For the record I realize what a meter can (and can not do) hence I don't own one but two, with one flash spotmeter for the very same reason why the above setup can give conflicting results with just incident readings when the meter is not properly shielded.
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...174780#p174780

IMO the difference between you and Kalypso is that one of you is a perfectionist while the other is an artist. For me, or may be Kalypso as well, what's a 1/3 stop (or even a 1/2 stop) between friends? It's in the noise in the overall picture...
I always start with my main head with the same camera setting (remember this is a controlled studio), the secondary head's ratio can easily be derived from its rear control (with an identical reflector/umbrella etc). I don't need to pull my meter from its holster to figure this out, and if your lights don't track then you need some pro-equipments with better regulation. One can measure the flash bursts all day, and do what if and analyze precisely to death as to what the camera will capture... I rather go the final result which is the histogram, and if needed I can always fine tune my shots by displacing the stands. :-)



As to the triggering voltage - Equipments with high-voltages (ie in the hundred volts) are rare.
12V, or even 24V, are considered low-voltage and are dictated by an ISO specs for triggering circuits which you chose to ignore:
1. Field people are not the designers (witness the conflicting responses from Canon USA vs Canada - "There is not a maximum voltage requirement for the hot shoe terminal on the PowerShot G1." - Canon Canada Tech Support EMail"), especially when the call centers are staffed with minimum wage personels
2. A governing body doesn't put out specifications for manufacturers then to turn around and ignore, especially when their company representative is participating in the body.
3. Products have to undergo certification where high limits on all specs are tested for (ie they don't put the UL, CSE, or TUV symbols for example on goods for nothing)
4. Part of the ISO-9000/9001 process is to examine the very failure that you talk about, document it, and establish a corrective action... This process is continuous and is audited every year by independent agencies.

-> They must have gone through many design reviews - Do you think that their design teams will fail to address this issue? I'll personally fire any engineer who knowingly ignore an international standard, couple with the highest field failure rate that everyone here is talking about. Come on this is Japan Co. with 6-Sigma quality! Wake-up people ESD electrostatic discharge from your clothes against the camera open contacts are in the kV range and the camera need to be protected against that too!

I guess its OK for someone to waste $60 for protection, but I rather spend that money on some accessory: like another reflector and hone my skill instead :?
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Old Sep 17, 2004, 10:32 PM   #64
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minutephotos.com wrote:
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Or the Canon IR ST-E2 (low option - too expensive)
FYI The Sigma EF500DG Super "becomes" an ST-E2 when you turn its flash output off! (ie you automatically get the ST-E2 when you get the Sigma). It does this through the pre-flash signaling just like on the 550EX...

There's also a hidden feature in the Sigma in that (like a Metz) it can control others Sigma's wirelessly through it's own protocol. You can set theses Sigma's just like the Alien Bees each with their own ratio and they all work wirelessly independent from the Canon's E-TTL (ie no pre-flash here) and syncable with the AB as well (page 23 - Wireless Manual Flash)
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Old Sep 18, 2004, 3:10 PM   #65
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NHL,

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IMO the difference between you and Kalypso is that one of you is a perfectionist while the other is an artist.
Interesting and highly judgmental statement since you know virtually nothing about me or the way I work. Because I have an opinion that encompasses using both a light meter AND a histogram, you make spurious conclusions which you are not qualified to make. But, if by perfectionist, you mean I attempt to make my photographs as good as I can, then you are technically correct. As for artistic - that is very subjective and difficult to argue, though you insist on trying. Is some of Kalypso's work artistic, sure. Is all of it, no, IMO. I find some of it to be very nice photographs, but not particularly "artistic" (which is in no way meant to criticize him as not everything needs to be artistic to be good). I feel the same about my own work. Does that make him or me restricted to only one of your inflexible and ill-informed categories - resounding NO.

Quote:
For me, or may be Kalypso as well, what's a 1/3 stop (or even a 1/2 stop) between friends? It's in the noise in the overall picture...
That was simply an example, but you make it an indication of non-artistic, inflexible perfectionist. Rather than the example it was meant to be and can be proven. And, by the way, I think there are many pros who would argue that 1/2 stop exposure can be important to an "artistic" photograph.

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(remember this is a controlled studio)....I don't need to pull my meter from its holster to figure this out, and if your lights don't track then you need some pro-equipments with better regulation....
First, I now understand that you use a "controlled studio" and have no artistic or perfectionist need to ever use different and interesting lighting to obtain other than standard, unchanging lighting setups. Who's the true inflexible "non-artist" here? Second, where did I say my lights don't track and exactly how would you know, despite your condescending attitude, what equipment I may or may not have? I bet all the pros who do much better work than either of us, are just tossing those light meters in the trash while their studio lights are frozen in perfectionist, repeatable position (i.e. a "controlled studio"), given your opinions.

Quote:
One can measure the flash bursts all day, and do what if and analyze precisely to death as to what the camera will capture... I rather go the final result which is the histogram, and if needed I can always fine tune my shots by displacing the stands.
I neither said, nor implied the first part of your statement and, in fact, refuted it by stating I usually get good exposures the first time, using my meter without "analyzing to death" or "flash bursts all day". If you don't approve or just wish to use all that fine tuning you describe, have at it. But there is no need to suggest that my method is inferior to yours. Especially since you speak from both a lack of knowledge about me and your method is simply your method (though I'd like to know in technical terms how you use a scene luminance histogram to know where to correctly adjust stands to better expose the subject vs. the total scene tonality and dynamic range, which is what the histogram isso goodat). Neither method is right or wrong in my mind, just different and I do indeed use the histogram. But I'm not as judgmental as you appear to be.

Quote:
12V, or even 24V, are considered low-voltage and are dictated by an ISO specs for triggering circuits which you chose to ignore.....witness the conflicting responses from Canon USA
Where, exactly, did I choose to ignore that? And, since Canon does place/state the limit for their thyristor based SLR's is 6V, I don't believe they agree with you either. But they are simply the manufacturers of the equipment and you choose to believe otherwise. I choose to operate within the limits. I clearly admitted there were some seeming contradictions in that article (which you chose to ignore), but I pointed out the high repair rate indicating a very closely related problem -- which you chose to ignore. The same article you refer to for support, clearly indicates that using a voltage above 6V is "Your Call" - a wise word of caution, which you again choose to ignore. They are even concerned enough about it to provide a tutorial on how to measure trigger voltages. When you use a source, try using all of it, not just snippets that you belive/assume support your position. Search the web and you'll find plenty of professional reviews indicating Canon's 6V limit. Canon even indirectly addresses it in the new 20D news release with a statement about a new highly increased trigger voltage limit - though they don't repeat the old 6V limit, just the new one. Besides, I never suggested you change or in any way demeaned your technique or equipment. As in all of this, do as you please with the info and so will I.

Quote:
There is not a maximum voltage requirement for the hot shoe terminal on the PowerShot G1.
So what? I was referring to the Canon 10D. The limit on that is 6V as per Canon whether you agree or not.

Quote:
especially when the call centers are staffed with minimum wage personnels
Not sure this means anything except to further disparage others. But, call centers staffed with such personnel usually have a reference guide from the manufacturer to answer these questions. If they say 6V, then I safely assume they got it from the manufacturer's reference material. I doubt they just made it up, even being "minimum wage personnels"

Quote:
Products have to undergo certification where high limits on all specs are tested for (ie they don't put the UL, CSE, or TUV symbols for example on goods for nothing)
As a professional pilot for many years, I know that aircraft manufacturers build in a safety margin in limiting aircraft maneuvers. Part of this is because much of this damage is not immediate, but cumulative. Having survived these many years by NOT exceeding the standard limits and not counting on any possible built-in safety margin, I stand by my statement. You go ahead and exceed all the limits you want and I wish you good luck. We just have a different opinon on safety and the purpose of manufacturer's limits and the risks we do or don't take with our equipment.

Quote:
They must have gone through many design reviews - Do you think that their design teams will fail to address this issue? I'll personally fire any engineer who knowingly ignore an international standard, couple with the highest field failure rate that everyone here is talking about. Come on this is Japan Co. with 6-Sigma quality! Wake-up people ESD electrostatic discharge from your clothes against the camera open contacts are in the kV range and the camera need to be protected against that too!
This is just non-sensical and needs no reply. And I'm glad to see all of your insight and knowledge about Canon's procedures. Must come from that same "minimum wage personnels" pool of insight.

Quote:
I guess its OK for someone to waste $60 for protection, but I rather spend that money on some accessory: like another reflector and hone my skill instead
Spend your money how you wish and characterize others' actions as dismissively as you wish. BTW, I already have those reflectors you seek, but then you already know a lot about my equipment as stated earlier. In any event, I'm done with this thread, since you obviously don't really want an objective discussion and we will never change each others' minds. Disparage away, you won't get a rise - or a reply - from me any further. I don't generally argue with intolerant, inflexible and condescending attitudes that don't allow for differing views and disparage others in the process.

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Old Sep 18, 2004, 9:33 PM   #66
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Ummmmmm...I would appreciate ya'll not talking about me like I'm some piece of meat. :P
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Old Sep 19, 2004, 10:26 AM   #67
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Whoa... Some rage for failing to measure to a decimal point hey. Isn't this supposed to be fun? :-):-):-)
I was just trying to defend your "hogwash" part, even though I have few flashmeters myself



This is not hogwash however:
ISO-10330 -- Synchronizers, ignition circuits and connectors for cameras and photoflash units -- Electrical characteristics and test methods.

Anyone can enlighten themself as well by downloading this 18 pages document from the American ANSI or here: http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-serv...ore/store.html
This international specification is due for renewal in 2006, but clearly without any ambiguity, it establishes the standard for handheld camera's sync circuits and their testings:
o Page 3 shows the hot-shoe and PC sync terminals mechanics
o The very next page defines both the high (24V) and the low (1.6V) limits, along with the signal waveform and its timings
o It also specifies the max current - and it's been said before: it's the current that kill and not the "open" voltage
o The document went into capacitance -> which will also limit the cable lenght... in case someone strings their lights too far
o The appendixes also describe a simple and inexpensive Zener (figure B.7) example on how to protect the sync terminals internally against high-voltage/high-current - :idea: This simple diode explained why my 10D and other EOS manuals say "It migh not fire" under this circumstance.
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Old Sep 19, 2004, 3:09 PM   #68
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Actually...I was kidding.
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Old Sep 28, 2004, 3:59 PM   #69
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Hi--I'm a stay at home mom with two B800 alien bees units. I do not plan on using my equipment for professional use. I have the interfit to trigger the strobes. For now, I will keep it. I did try to read everypost in this discussion, but I'm sure I missed tons of stuff.

$35 to $350 is quite a jump. Of course, I don't want to damage my camera, though! It sounds like you and I have different needs; however, as a beginner myself, I would be hesitant to be purchasing expensive equipment. I would keep thinking about this decision--I have a tendency to buy and then think about it later. I also have the DRebel--one thing I've been disappointed with is shutter lag (but that's a whole other post).

Anyway, let us know what you decide to do. It's easy to get overwhelmed with information. Good luck!
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Old Sep 28, 2004, 6:44 PM   #70
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I have purchased 2nd AB800's and I am very happy with them. I attempted to purchase a Sigma 500 DG Super, but Amazon was going to take over a month to ship it to me. I think there is a new model that now supports Nikon or something. They sell ffrom $199 - $212.

So, I canceled that order and purchased a second AB800 Beginner Bee $358. Yes it is definately more expensive than the Sigma but I had so many people recommend having both lights the same to make adjusting ratios easier and having a backup AB800.

I am looking forward to getting the Vaganond battery unit and moving my whole operation outdoors.

I purchased the wireless Radio transmitter from joesauction2000 for $49.00, Those guys scared me away from the Interfit IR because I don't want to damage my camera or even take that kind of a risk when where only talking the difference between 35 and 49 dollars.

PS

I also founf out how to make my 420EX work with the AB800's. Someone recommended using FEL. This solved my pre-flash issue and gives me some manula controls over 420EX. Trick, point flash at white piece of paper close to flash, press and hold the FEL button. THe high reflectiveness of the white paper will make Flash fire very low output, with no pre-flash and will fire AB800. :idea: If I want 420EX to have more power poing at something dark and far away, repeat same process. Flash will fire at full power, no pre-flash. Clunky process, but it works fine.
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