Birthday Gift

[TCav]

Originally Posted by ramcewan

Fact is if the objective is to shoot outdoor scenes and family gatherings, as was stated, low light capability is going to be more important than reach. A larger sensor or brighter lens is going to prove better in these situations.

If we presume your very narrow interpretation of what she said, then yes. But an ILC with a kit lens wouldn't serve that purpose any better than a superzoom P&S. At the wide end, the lens on the H300 is faster than a kit lens for an ILC, and that kit lens gets dimmer a lot faster as you zoom, than the lens on the H300. So as far as the lenses are concerned, the ILC is actually at a disadvantage. And while the larger sensors in ILCs would be less noisy, the 20MP sensor in the H300 would make the noise it has less obtrusive. So even with your best argument, image quality might actually be a wash. And again, that's presuming your very narrow interpretation of what she said.

[ramcewan]

Originally Posted by TCav

If we presume your very narrow interpretation of what she said, then yes.

not narrow interpretation, I directly quoted what was said;

Originally Posted by SilverUnicorn

Pictures will vary from family gatherings to outdoor scenes.

Originally Posted by TCav

So even with your best argument

Finally it's clear, as usual your inability to accept any opinion other than yours has probably driven away the original poster as this has devolved into an argument, which is precisely what you come here for, an argument, am I right?

How many threads in this section have devolved in this way? I know I've had at least a few of these with you already. Guess I haven't learned my lesson that TCav controls this section! With people like you it's no wonder Steve's is a ghost town.

My apologies to SilverUnicorn

Originally Posted by TCav

"One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions." - Wernher von Braun.

oh and p.s. Wernher von Braun was a Nazi war criminal, the only reason he wasn't prosecuted was because the US wanted the secrets to the V-2, here he is with his buddies;

[VTphotog]

Hey, there, SilverUnicorn;
If you are still following this, could you tell use what your BF is using for a camera now? Camera phone, or something a little bigger? Do you know if he has any brand preferences?
Since you say he is interested in photography, he may already have some ideas of his own. Get him talking on the subject and you may find out more details. If it is the technical aspects that interest him, you should probably look for something with good manual controls.

brian

[TCav]

Originally Posted by ramcewan

not narrow interpretation, I directly quoted what was said

Really?

What she said:

Pictures will vary from family gatherings to outdoor scenes.

Your narrow interpretation of what she said:

... low light capability ...

In case you don't see this as a narrow interpretation, family gatherings don't always occur in low light situations. In fact, in my experience, they rarely do. (i.e.: Barbeques, picnics, camping trips, trips to the beach, grandchildren's little league games, etc.)

So ...

... low light capability ...

.. isn't a requirement, presuming that an ILC with a kit lens could achieve it anyway.

And as for Wernher von Braun, not that his prior associations would invalidate what he had to say about engineering and science, here are a few more from the Wikimedia Commons:


... with Walt Disney.


... with US Army Generals.


... with 5 of the original 7 Mercury Astronauts.


... with President Dwight D. Eisenhower.

BTW, I just sold Von Braun's autograph, along with John Glenn's, Neil Armstrong's and Buzz Aldrin's, at auction for almost $2,500. I doubt I'm the only one that thinks he's a notable individual.


JOOC, is this how you typically argue? ... by accusing others of arguing with you?

[ramcewan]

Originally Posted by TCav

Really?

What she said:

Your narrow interpretation of what she said:

In case you don't see this as a narrow interpretation, family gatherings don't always occur in low light situations. In fact, in my experience, they rarely do. (i.e.: Barbeques, picnics, camping trips, trips to the beach, grandchildren's little league games, etc.)

So ...

.. isn't a requirement, presuming that an ILC with a kit lens could achieve it anyway.

Yes all family gatherings are outdoors in bright light now, you wouldn't consider gathered 'round the fireplace on x-mas eve a family gathering in low light right? Birthday dinners and cake and ice cream, again not family gatherings in low light. Graduations indoors and school plays or recitals also don't qualify as low light, right? Weddings in dim churches and receptions only occur during the day time too, right?

Listen you're trying to argue your way out of it but only a "narrow interpretation" of family gatherings excludes low light scenarios. Give it a rest an honest interpretation includes low light situations.

Originally Posted by TCav

And as for Wernher von Braun, not that his prior associations would invalidate what he had to say about engineering and science, here are a few more from the Wikimedia Commons:


... with Walt Disney.


... with US Army Generals.


... with 5 of the original 7 Mercury Astronauts.


... with President Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Like I said he got a pass because the rocket technology in his head was too tantalizing for the US brass to pass up. Immunity for knowledge was the deal and he took it.

Let's talk about Von Braun during war time, a time during which he acknowledged, in writing after the fact, that he personally selected workers for Mittelwerk, where they built the V-2 rockets, from camp inmates at Buchenwald, a concentration camp. Some 20,000 slave labors died at Mittelwerk building Von Braun's V-2. People he personally saw with his own eyes and picked to be subjected to slave labor in deplorable conditions until they could no longer work and were summarily executed.

Some how 20,000 dead slave labors on your hands out weighs standing next to Walt Disney. I can find pictures of KKK members next to important people too. Much like your flawed negative logic above, posing with someone who is good does not make you good.

But hey maybe that's just me, maybe you look up to people who've knowingly participated in crimes against humanity leading to the death of 20,000 people.

You can white wash it all you want but to me Von Braun's accomplishments after war time do not outweigh his actions during war, we could have gotten to the moon without him and should have.

Originally Posted by TCav

BTW, I just sold Von Braun's autograph, along with John Glenn's, Neil Armstrong's and Buzz Aldrin's, at auction for almost $2,500. I doubt I'm the only one that thinks he's a notable individual.

I hear there's a huge market for Nazi memorabilia too for other people willing to white wash the past with misconceptions.

[ramcewan]

Originally Posted by TCav

BTW, I just sold Von Braun's autograph, along with John Glenn's, Neil Armstrong's and Buzz Aldrin's, at auction for almost $2,500. I doubt I'm the only one that thinks he's a notable individual.

P.S. Probably would have been worth more without Von Braun's name on it, all the value is in the astronauts' signatures.

Originally Posted by TCav

JOOC, is this how you typically argue? ... by accusing others of arguing with you?

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to point out options for a camera for SilverUnicorn. You are the one who has no respect for anyone else's recommendations and seems to think only your way is the right way.

I've repeatedly and respectfully agreed with your recommendation of a super zoom for someone who has no plans to grow and needs good reach.

I've also repeatedly explained why other options would be good ones and pointed out that the superzoom you recommend filled a need that wasn't explicitly expressed.

I'm done, the floor is yours TCav

[TCav]

I generally don't participate in these "What Camera Should I Buy" topics. I just saw you recommend an old, outdated 9MP Panasonic ZS40(TZ50), and thought I'd suggest a newer, more capable camera. It was then that you suggested a refurbished ILC, and you jumped all over me when I mentioned that a refurbished product wouldn't be a good choice for a gift.

I'm certain that you feel more comfortable with your version of history, but there happens to be a paper trail for mine.

[ramcewan]

Originally Posted by TCav

I generally don't participate in these "What Camera Should I Buy" topics. I just saw you recommend an old, outdated 9MP Panasonic ZS40(TZ50), and thought I'd suggest a newer, more capable camera.

actually that was someone else who suggested the ZS40, but nice try.

Originally Posted by rudimaes

A travel zoom like the Panasonic ZS40(TZ50), could do. It's a small versatile camera.

Originally Posted by TCav

It was then that you suggested a refurbished ILC, and you jumped all over me when I mentioned that a refurbished product wouldn't be a good choice for a gift.

I'm certain that you feel more comfortable with your version of history, but there happens to be a paper trail for mine.

Actually it was the other way and here's your paper trail:

Your response on my suggestion of stretch for an ILC, seems you were jumping on me, replying to my response to SilverUnicorn:

Originally Posted by TCav

There are no dSLRs in her price range, and I wouldn't recommend any of the mirrorless cameras that are within or anywhere near it.

Your response when I provided two good refurbished options:

Originally Posted by TCav

I would hesitate to recommend a refurbished camera as a gift.

Your response when I pointed out the two refurbished cameras had 90 day warranties and offered my own comfort level with Olympus' refurbished gear, you'll note at this point you're getting an attitude:

Originally Posted by TCav

... not to mention an interchangeable lens camera without a lens.

If she can get others in hers or his family to go in with her, why shouldn't get them all to go in for a NEW dSLR? I don't think that's an option she would consider.

your response when James Emory also expressed confidence in refurbished products:

Originally Posted by TCav

I understand the attraction of refurbished products, and have purchased several lenses on the used market. I just don't think it's an appropriate source for a gift.

What I see is that every time I or someone else (rudymae, James or I) offered an opinion or an option instead of letting it stand along side yours you felt the need to jump in and refute, dismiss or disparage.

• First you refuted the availability of an ILC in price range.
• Next confronted with two options you dismissed the refurbished option.
• Then you disparaged the suggestion that a DSLR body be purchased and the purchase of a lens coordinated with another family member.

Not once had any one disagreed or recommended against your super zoom choice.

And yes at that point I did respond directly to your attitude and question your motivations as it was clear that you were unwilling to accept that an ILC could be an option and point out that nothing in the SilverUnicorn's requirements pointed to a superzoom.

From there semantic arguments ensued and you defended a war criminal. Yes maybe I jumped on you but I certainly didn't jump first.

Putting all that aside I find your signature quoting Von Brahn offensive, he's a war criminal responsible for 20,000 deaths and should not be celebrated, I'd like you to take it down out of respect to those 20,000 dead

[ramcewan]

Originally Posted by TCav

I generally don't participate in these "What Camera Should I Buy" topics.

P.S. Out of the most recent 12 posts with replies you've participated in 8, or 2/3 of the threads, seems you do participate in a majority of these "What Camera Should I Buy" topics.

[TCav]

I still maintain that the ILCs you suggested, refurbished or not, wouldn't serve the OP's boyfriend any better than the H300, and your steadfast defense of your suggestion in the face of evidence to the contrary, followed by your ad hominem attacks on me, are what dragged this topic into the muck.

I also continue to maintain that a refurbished camera is not an appropriate gift, but I rely on the OP to determine that for herself. And you belaboring the issue doesn't serve any of us well.