Digital SLR v Promsumer

[wise]

Hi y'all!

I have been toying with the idea to go for a DSLR with the usual 18-55 lens. The price point also seems reasonable. The ONLY thing keeping me from buying a Nikon-50D or Canon Rebel-XT is the frequently mentioned problem of 'dust on the sensor'.

I don't know how serious this problem can be, I mean how often can you get the dust on the sensor and how long a DSLR can be operated without sensor cleaning if dust problem is inevitable?

Any answers?

[toshi43]

DSLR sensors are susceptible to dust everytime the lens is removed. Olympus has an ultrasonic dust-removal system in their line of DSLRs, but I'm not aware of anything similar in other makes.

If you're going to use the camera in dirty or dustyenvironments, have a look at the Olympus E500.

3 meg fuji finepix s3800:

[toshi43]

Greatshot, bernabeu!With an eye like yours, who needs a DSLR? Any good camera will do!

[diegofarias]

I´m suffering too... Now I have in mind 3 models:FZ30, D50 and 350d. I know that FZ is a different level of camera, but .... Now there´s a batlle: 12x OIS zoom, video mode (not soooo important), versatility and no additional costs with lenses vs.TTL, speed, iso capability and...... I´m exausted!!!

I really don´t know what to do.

[AngieG]

Someone just pointed me to the Konica Minolta 5D. The review looks good on it and the price too.

[E.T]

toshi43 wrote:

Cameras like the new Sony R1 and the Samsung Pro815 puzzle me. They're as big as entry-level DSLRs and cost about the same, yet they don't offer DSLR advantages like TTL optical viewfinders and interchangeable lenses.

R1 is definitely really weird product and I can't find any reason for buying it instead of DSLR.

But Samsung 815 is perfectly reasonable, it has fast (F2.2 - F4.6) zoom lens with range from real wide angle (28mm) to very long tele (420mm) with macro capability in same package. Price of DSLR with lenses for same zoom range and separate macro lenses would be very heavy, both economically and physically with addiotional hassle of changing lens.
And DSLRs really don't differ much from film SLRs, they're still "post view" cameras.


AngieG wrote:

Someone just pointed me to the Konica Minolta 5D. The review looks good on it and the price too.

Yep, there should be really wide range of older good quality Minolta lenses available and Anti-Shake makes every lens stabilized.
(versus need for separate very expensive stabilized lenses with other brands)

toshi43,

my cameras:

fuji a205

(ex) fuji s3800, replaced by: fuji s7000

KM 7D

canon Aqua-Snappy (10 meter submersible)

thank you for the wonderful compliment

...john

[squirl033]

okay, i'm gonna jump in here and add my 2 cents' worth.

DSLR's offer bigger sensors and lower noise, no question about that. but to me, this whole argument is overdone. noise from a smaller sensor may be noticeable on your screen, especially at full image size, but is seldom objectionable in a print, unless you're printing large sizes (8x10 or bigger) and the image was taken in low light or at high ISO where prosumer cameras don't do as well. and if the noise is a problem, there are enough software solutions for noise out there that will take care of it for you. given that most top prosumer cameras now offer image stabilization, which lets you shoot at lower shutter speeds and still get good pictures, there's seldom any need for ISO settings above 100 unless you're trying to shoot action photos in low light. image stabilized lenses are available for DSLR's, of course, but just one suchlens can cost you almost as much as a prosumer camera!

then there's the whole"kit" thing. are you willing to invest in all the lenses and filters and other hoo-ha that goes along with a DSLR? more to the point, assuming money isn't a concern, are you willing to carry all that stuff with you all the time, whenever you go out, so you won't miss a shot? i know from my years packing a 35mm SLR that a bagful of lenses can get to be a real drag after an hour or two, and i've missed good shots because the lens i had on wasn't the one i needed, and the opportunity was gone before i could change lenses. the ultrazoom prosumer cameras eliminate the need for that rucksack full of gear, all you really need is in your hand. sure, you can get macro lenses that will take astonishing close-ups, or teleconverters to extend your reach to 600mm (35mm equivalent) or more, but for 99% of most people's uses, a 35-400mm lens will cover just about anything that might come up.

i have seen countless photos taken with DSLR's that made me shake my head and wonder "why"? i have seen tons of pics taken with Nikon D70's or Canon 20D's or the like, which were, frankly, lousy photos. the problem wasn't noise. it was poor composition, improper exposure, lack of focus... the list goes on. i've also seen - and taken - shots with prosumer cameras (i own a Panasonic FZ20) that will rival photos from a DSLR for clarity and detail in print sizes up to 8x10, and in some cases 11x14. my point is that too many people worry too much about the equipment and not enough about the technique. if you haven't got the basics nailed, upgrading to a DSLR won't make you a better photographer, it will just let you make more expensive mistakes. on the other hand, give a good photographer a good prosumer digicam, and he will deliver outstanding results. not because the camera is better or worse, but because he knows how to use it, to maximize its strengths and overcome its weaknesses.

now... in good hands, a quality DSLR can take phenomenalshots, better than anything from any prosumer camera.DSLR's focus faster, and are much faster shot-to-shot, which means they're better for action photos. and they have TTL optical viewfinders, which makes them vastly better for panning work, such as capturing sequences of birds in flight, or race cars or the like. but, as has been pointed out, all this comes at a price. to get a good DSLR and the lenses you need to cover the same zoom range as a prosumer digicam like the FZ30 - especially if you want top quality, IS lenses -you'll easily spend $2500 (~1500 GBP) or more. that's a far cry from the the $600 or so (~350 GBP)you'll need to shell out for the FZ30 or a comparable all-in-one camera. if you're a pro, or want to become one, maybe the cost of a good DSLR and top-quality lensesis a small investment. but for an amateur, it's a lot of money, and pretty hard to justify, especially when prosumer cameras are now available that perform almost as well as entry-level DSLR's.

so it boils down to acouple of key questions:
1) what will you use the camera for? are you looking for something for casual snapshots, vacation photos, or pics of the kids? then don't waste your money on a DSLR - you don't need it, and you won't get your money's worth from it. if you will be using it for challenging work - lots of action shots,low-light or portraits, or other work where faster focus and shot-to-shot times, higherISO and dynamic range,or the advantages of an optical viewfinder are critical, then a DSLR might be a good investment.
2) will you usethe camera enough, and become proficient enough (in your own opinion, not anyone else's) tojustify the cost of a good DSLR and lenses, which can very easily exceed 5x the price of a top-drawer "prosumer" camera?are you willing to spend that much money for what is, in most cases, a relatively small incremental increase in image quality?

if it sounds like i'm pushing prosumer cams over DSLR's, i'm not. i just believe that most people who buy DSLR's are wasting a lot of money, spending thousands on a camera that will be used mostly for taking snapshots of the family vacation in Disneyland, or little Timmy's soccer games. for them, a prosumer is a better chioce. after all, you can always step up to a DSLR later if you really feel the need, and many people who start out with prosumer cams keep them, even after they get a DSLR, as a second camera to use when they don't feel like lugging a bagful of accessories around with them.

[diegofarias]

Squirl, thank you for the advice! As I wrote here, I´m really confused, because I live in Brazil, and here the prices are too high! So, I´m having now the opportunity to buy one in Paraguay, where the prices are much more affordable. The camera that I´ll buy must be, mainly, strong, well built and DURABLEbecause I won´t buyother oneso early as you can do in USA, due do the lower prices and easier access to them. Another problem is the lack of warranty and apropriate service for eventual problems.

In Paraguay I can buy a FZ30 for $700, and a D50 with kit lensmight cost, I´m not sure, about $950-$1000. The difference is not too high, but as you said, there are cons/pros for prosumers and dSLR cameras.

I want a camera for personal purposes, I apreciate nice taken photos and want to do it as a hobby.

Seeing my problems, wich option should be better?Are the FZ30 and prosumersso tough and durable as the D50 and entry-level dSLR?

Thanks for the help!