Nikon D50 or Canon 350D/Rebel XT?

[Monza76]

BenjaminXYZ wrote:

Thanks for those test TDN.

I need to inform you that I don't resize my images BTW unless I really need to. I always look at them full sized or crop at 100% only; so that is why I am so particular! :idea:

I don't think the stores still sell those interesting Pentax lenses BTW as much as I like them. (They might be selling only the latest ones).

I was going to respond but realized that the only appropriate response would be no response at all. So here is my non-response.

Ira

[rjseeney]

double post

[rjseeney]

BenjaminXYZ wrote:

Thanks for those test TDN.

I need to inform you that I don't resize my images BTW unless I really need to. I always look at them full sized or crop at 100% only; so that is why I am so particular! :idea:

I don't think the stores still sell those interesting Pentax lenses BTW as much as I like them. (They might be selling only the latest ones).

What?? As was mentioned, there is no monitor than can show entire full sized images at 100%, which is way beyond normal print sizes, which is how they will be viewed in real life. NOBODY prints 100% crops.Please be careful about giving advice on cameras that you have no practical/real world experience with beyond reading a bunch of reviews.

[Monza76]

rjseeney wrote:

What?? As was mentioned, there is no monitor than can show entire full sized images at 100%, which is way beyond normal print sizes, which is how they will be viewed in real life. NOBODY prints 100% crops.Please be careful about giving advice on cameras that you have no practical/real world experience with beyond reading a bunch of reviews.

Well said, more than likely ignored. I could reprise my last responses but...

The sad part is that many readers who are not very knowledgeable, but willing to learn, will not necessarily recognize the folly of following this "advice".

Ira

[mtngal]

afayec- As far as your question about low light - it depends on what you are taking in the low light. I can't help you with the D50, since I've never used one, but here's a picture I took last night with the K100D. This is the first time I've tried to take night pictures like this, I'm on vacation (my home is rural without street lights or big buildings). I'm certainly no pro!

The SR makes a huge difference when it comes to camera shake, but doesn't help with moving objects. This picture was taken with either a 24mm 2.8 (wide open) or a 50mm 1.4 (at 1.7 or 2.0). The exif is still attached to the picture, but since both lenses are 20-25 year old manual lenses, it doesn't report settings to the camera, and I used both on my short walk. Love having Shake Reduction on a lens I bought new in 1980!

Handheld on a street, K100D, 200 ISO, 1/10 sec, shot in raw, converted using the Pentax software.

[afayec]

mtngal: It looks like a great pic to me! Thanks for the info and for sharing.

[BenjaminXYZ]

BenjaminXYZ wrote: Thanks for those test TDN.

I need to inform you that I don't resize my images BTW unless I really need to. I always look at them full sized or crop at 100% only; so that is why I am so particular! :idea:

I don't think the stores still sell those interesting Pentax lenses BTW as much as I like them. (They might be selling only the latest ones).


I was going to respond but realized that the only appropriate response would be no response at all. So here is my non-response.

Ira

Stop being a troll. You don't have to keep on repeating an identical statement twice. In case you didn't know, I already read that statement before; you wrote it before.

To use it to reply in my above post sounds ridiculous. If you have nothing to respond, why bother to respond at all. :roll:

What?? As was mentioned, there is no monitor than can show entire full sized images at 100%, which is way beyond normal print sizes, which is how they will be viewed in real life. NOBODY prints 100% crops.Please be careful about giving advice on cameras that you have no practical/real world experience with beyond reading a bunch of reviews.

Sometimes you have to respect people's way of viewing their images. If I like to view my images at 100%, so what??? I usually like to scroll around my images at 100% view and that is me, please respect that.

BTW, even my camera phones will produce high quality images if I resize everything.:roll:

When I am getting a digital camera (expecially a dSLR), I expect more. Expecially with a dSLR, I expects high quality images when viewed at 100%, or else I would better keep my N1 digital camera. :?

"NOBODY prints 100% crops" sounds TOO extreme and generalizing to me, I will fail my exam if I answer that as a true. (Better toresolveto "most of the time"):roll:

Please be careful about giving advice on cameras that you have no practical/real world experience with beyond reading a bunch of reviews.

Don't think that those reviews aren't useful/helpful. In fact, they have been one of the most useful/helpful source of informationsto me. In fact, the reviewers themselvesoften give some really good advices to the readers.

A majority of the infos I've provided in here are based on professional reviews I've read over a few times.

[TDN]

BenjaminXYZ wrote:

Expecially with a dSLR, I expects high quality images when viewed at 100%, or else I would better keep my N1 digital camera. :?

Well...now that you mention it...

[Monza76]

BenjaminXYZ wrote: [quote][code]Stop being a troll. You don't have to keep on repeating an identical statement twice. In case you didn't know, I already read that statement before; you wrote it before.

To use it to reply in my above post sounds ridiculous. If you have nothing to respond, why bother to respond at all. :roll:











Obviously the subtlety of that response was lost on you. Now before this troll goes back under his bridge let me clarify that response.

Point 1:
This forum is for those who are looking for help in purchasing a camera. Your initial posts here asked for opinions. As soon as you received those opinions you set about to show how they were all wrong because "the professional reviewers said..." (sic). You ask our opinions but they are never good enough to actually listen to.

Point 2:
Since this initial post you have changed your mind more times then the weather has changed where I live (... forecast, rain, result, rain...). Each time you make a "decision" you seem bent on convincing every new poster out there thatyours is the only valid choice, because it is based on "professional reviews"and they should all getthat same camerabecause of that.

Point 3:
You have shown a lack of respect for posters who are professionals. Their advice has been contradicted or passed over as being merely opinion, not like the "professional reviews". If you need evidence of this attitude, then read the threads you have been posting to.

Point 4:
No one here said that reviews are not helpful, instead they have been trying, in vain I might add, to point out to you that reviews are not everything. Nothing is purely objective, point of view applies even to subjective testing. Add the readers interpretation of the text to the mix and you have automatic bias. The trick is to read several reviews and compare results, do they find particular strengths or weaknesses that would impact on your use of the camera.
For instance, hypothetically a reviewer could be totally impressed by a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark 2, why wouldn't he be? Now based on this information you go out and buy one, with an EF 70-200mm f4LIS USM lens. You now feel you have as close to the ultimate telephoto camera money can buy, and you are probably right.Now lift it, or better, carry it around all day. Ultimate performance isn't everything, the best camera is one that fits your purpose, and most reviewers point that out, but it gets ignored.

Point 5:
As one of the "...particularly bad Pentax owners..."(sic) I must point out that I often recommend other cameras, especially the Nikon D50, Olympus E-500 and the Canon 20D/30D. In fact the only consistently negative comment I have made about another brand here does not apply to its picture taking or quality, instead it is to its fit in the hands. I think Canon made the XT grip too small to hold onto for too many people, the designer must have had very small hands. Yes I recommend Pentax to many people, but I also recognize that for some people what it says on the front of the camera is part of their way of justifying the expense. I am not talking about the camera jewelry crowd, I am referring to people on a tight budget who need reassurance that their camera was a good choice because they cannot go out and buy another on a whim. There is also the warning of what is available where you live, some brands, like Pentax, are not readily available in some markets, unlike Canon and Nikon that are found everywhere.

I did you the courtesy of sending a PM earlier because I thought your posts were strongly worded and somewhat misleading to new members. Your responses after that seemed to be more open ended, until you changed your mind again.

I apologize for any rudeness I may have shown. I apologize for the lengthiness of this post. But I do not apologize for pointing out that respect is indeed a two way street, it is something that must be earned not demanded.

Humbly
Ira

[BenjaminXYZ]

Point 1:
This forum is for those who are looking for help in purchasing a camera. Your initial posts here asked for opinions. As soon as you received those opinions you set about to show how they were all wrong because "the professional reviewers said..." (sic). You ask our opinions but they are never good enough to actually listen to.

Okay, I am very sorry if I had dismissed any of the opinions. I might have been too tied up by professional reviews. Sorry about that.

Point 2:
Since this initial post you have changed your mind more times then the weather has changed where I live (... forecast, rain, result, rain...). Each time you make a "decision" you seem bent on convincing every new poster out there thatyours is the only valid choice, because it is based on "professional reviews"and they should all getthat same camerabecause of that.

Alright, I am verysorry if I had mis-leaded any readers around here including you. It was definitely not my intention to mislead anyone in here. Very sorry, very sorry.

Point 3:
You have shown a lack of respect for posters who are professionals. Their advice has been contradicted or passed over as being merely opinion, not like the "professional reviews". If you need evidence of this attitude, then read the threads you have been posting to.

If I have been disrespectful, I really apologize for it. Keep in mind that it has never been my intention to dis-respect anyone in here.

Point 4:
No one here said that reviews are not helpful, instead they have been trying, in vain I might add, to point out to you that reviews are not everything. Nothing is purely objective, point of view applies even to subjective testing. Add the readers interpretation of the text to the mix and you have automatic bias. The trick is to read several reviews and compare results, do they find particular strengths or weaknesses that would impact on your use of the camera. 
For instance, hypothetically a reviewer could be totally impressed by a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark 2, why wouldn't he be? Now based on this information you go out and buy one, with an EF 70-200mm f4LIS USM lens. You now feel you have as close to the ultimate telephoto camera money can buy, and you are probably right.Now lift it, or better, carry it around all day. Ultimate performance isn't everything, the best camera is one that fits your purpose, and most reviewers point that out, but it gets ignored.

Alright alright, I got it all. I will surely keep those in mind.

Point 5:
As one of the "...particularly bad Pentax owners..."(sic) I must point out that I often recommend other cameras, especially the Nikon D50, Olympus E-500 and the Canon 20D/30D. In fact the only consistently negative comment I have made about another brand here does not apply to its picture taking or quality, instead it is to its fit in the hands. I think Canon made the XT grip too small to hold onto for too many people, the designer must have had very small hands. Yes I recommend Pentax to many people, but I also recognize that for some people what it says on the front of the camera is part of their way of justifying the expense. I am not talking about the camera jewelry crowd, I am referring to people on a tight budget who need reassurance that their camera was a good choice because they cannot go out and buy another on a whim. There is also the warning of what is available where you live, some brands, like Pentax, are not readily available in some markets, unlike Canon and Nikon that are found everywhere.

Sorry if I had placed you as a Pentax fanatic, I shall take back my words now.

Sorry also for misjudging you.

I did you the courtesy of sending a PM earlier because I thought your posts were strongly worded and somewhat misleading to new members. Your responses after that seemed to be more open ended, until you changed your mind again.

I apologize for any rudeness I may have shown. I apologize for the lengthiness of this post. But I do not apologize for pointing out that respect is indeed a two way street, it is something that must be earned not demanded.

Humbly
Ira

I also apologize for being harsh and for my misunderstandings towards you.