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Old Jan 10, 2006, 12:15 PM   #11
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You are absolutely wrong about assuming no IS makes a camera useless. I have an S5100, and take handheld, full zoom (380 mm) shots all the time without blur. I'm sure some people could not, because they have some medical affliction which causes them to shake uncontrollably. Also, some people simply do not know how to properly hold a camera to assure shake-free exposures. In other words, some people couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a rifle at 100 yards, without a built in gyroscope.

The original poster wants a camera for sporting events in low light situations...IS does not stop athletes from moving. Yes, a DSLR would be the best, but not with a $350 spending limit - not everyone can just drop thousands of dollars on a camera.

I agree with curtiss - high ISO all the way.

Sorry dude.

the Hun

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Old Jan 10, 2006, 12:35 PM   #12
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You didnt mention the FZ20 which has a great lecia lens thathas 2.8 apeture at full zoom allowing in more light than any other PS lens on the marketand with the IS will get an even higer shutter speed.

It is also a larger camera than the FZ5 and has a non propriatery hot shoe so you dont have to attach the slave flash bracket as well as lug it around everytime you want to use the flash. I prefer the shots using the add on flash and find myself using it whenever I need a flash but then I use it bounced so a fixed forward onlyflash wouldnt be any different than the in camera one for taking closer flash shots such as a party, and it keeps the distracting flash out of their eyes.

I was deciding between the fuji 5200 and the Fz20 and didnt like that I would have to take all my zoom pics at a higher ISO than necessary to keep the camera from blurring from shaking and it will shake no matter what camera you use and how much light there is, its the long zoom that does it so I want to shoot at a much lower ISO and use IS than to have noise when Im taking a pic that shouldnt need that high of anISO. And another thing I found interesting is that the fuji raw images are the same as the panasonic raw images so the fuji has a lot more incamera noise reduction which leads to soft pics even at low ISO, the panasonic images are much sharper and can be better handled if noise needs to be removed by software outside of the camera.

I havent tried my FZ20 at night at a school game but Im sure if you ask at the Panasonic forum you can get some answers there. For me the one thing I couldnt shoot with my fuji 3800 I can get easily with the FZ20 which is ansudo-indoorrockconcert we put on every year. And I can get better pics of the hummingbirds with the remoteshutter release and the no sleep mode in the camera.

The kodak P850 shots arent impressive and had so much cropping you can see the pixels. I came across a thread showing FZindoor basketball and zoom capabilities but I lost it ill have to add it later.

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Old Jan 10, 2006, 1:17 PM   #13
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Old Jan 10, 2006, 1:17 PM   #14
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I think you are a bit mis-inform, you said IS will get you an even higher shutter speed, sorry, it does not, only high iso or a faster lens will provide you with a higher shutter speed.

The S5200 aperture is at f3.2 at full zoom, the Fz20 has f2.8 at full zoom, which is only 1/3 stop difference, not that much faster. Here's a fantastic exposure calculator to experiment different aperture and iso settings:


I've seen iso400 RAW samples from the FZ30, and the noise level is about the same as iso800 RAW samples from the S5200, so the Fuji still has a leg up in the noise at high iso, it's just not as wide and gap as people made it out to be.

The FZ20 does not have RAW, so it's difficult to do an accurate noise comparison, but the FZ20 iso400 noise level is quite a bit worse than the FZ30, so I think Panasonic has certainly made some stride with their sensor as well.

While it's true that I.S. will allow you to take the same low-light scene at lower iso, it will not help freeze subject movement.

For concerts and indoor sports, the only two camera I would recommend are the Fuji S5200 and the Panasonic FZ30, giving the FZ30 a slight edge for its I.S. and sharper lens.


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Old Jan 13, 2006, 12:35 AM   #15
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curtisfun wrote:
While I agree that it is pretty hard to avoid camera shake at 380mm without I.S., you can compensate for this with some support such as a tripod/monopod, seating on a chair, kneeling on the floor, or leaning a a wall. I can get camera shake-free shot down to 1/60s by using this method while taking a picture in burst mode. The first picture will usually be blurry because your finger pressing the shutter will cause some movement, but the 2nd and last shot willl come out blur-free.
Yes, using the burst mode you can achieve a surprising amount of image stabilisation. On the other hand, you fill up your memory card rather quickly with this kind of image stabilisation, because you can't really evaluate sharpenesswith the LCD or EVF. Nikon has pushed further this simple idea with their best shot selector. Keeping the shutter button pressed, I can shoot up to ten pictures (even in raw mode) with my CP 8400 and the image processor then selects the sharpest one. That procedure yields quite good results but it is slow and not very comfortable compared with an image stabiliser.
I have never said that a camera without image stabilisation is useless. I only said that a 380 mm focal length is "pretty useless". Of course you can always use a tripod to make it useful.According to your statement " I have an S5100, and take handheld, full zoom (380 mm) shots all the time without blur." youseem to be a tripod yourself. Keep it mind that the impact of shake on sharpeness is reverse proportional to pixel size. That's why shake is such a huge problem for cameras with small sensors and Panasonic now equips even their low end cameras with an image stabiliser. Although DSLRs have additional mirror shake (can beavoided with best shot selection or burst mode), their huge pixels make them less sensitive against shake. Despite image stabilisationup to5% of my shots with my Powershot S1 at 360 mm are blurry. With my Powershot A70 about 20% of all pictures at 105 mm were blurred. That clearly demonstrates the usefulness of image stabilisation for users, which are not "tripods".
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