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Old Sep 19, 2006, 7:46 PM   #1
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Hello,

I was just wondering what a good camera is, with not a lot of noise at higher iso's (probably around iso3200). I know i say non dslr, but thats because i also want a lot of zoom and that could cost a lot with a dslr..........

I was looking at some of the fuji's, but can you recommend some good low light cameras with a lot of zoom, at least 10X optical zoom.

they also have to accept filters, and all of that......

I shoot outdoor football, indoor basketball, indoor hockey, indoor volleyball, e.t.c.........

Help greatly apreciated..

reply asap..

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Old Sep 19, 2006, 8:19 PM   #2
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The best lowlight superzoom now is the Fuji FinePix S5200. Its top ISO setting is 1600, but I wouldn't use it that often. Pictures taken at ISO 400 are pretty good and those at 800 are ok.



There are perhaps better lowlight cameras coming out - the S6500 and the S9100, both from Fuji. They will cost probably at least twice as much as the S5200.
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Old Sep 19, 2006, 8:36 PM   #3
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robbo wrote:
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The best lowlight superzoom now is the Fuji FinePix S5200. Its top ISO setting is 1600, but I wouldn't use it that often. Pictures taken at ISO 400 are pretty good and those at 800 are ok.



There are perhaps better lowlight cameras coming out - the S6500 and the S9100, both from Fuji. They will cost probably at least twice as much as the S5200.
What's the fastest shutter speed?????

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Old Sep 19, 2006, 8:47 PM   #4
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There isn't a non-DSLR that has "with not a lot of noise at higher iso's (probably around iso3200)". Look at any review and you will see.


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Old Sep 19, 2006, 8:52 PM   #5
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It's 1/2000 of a second, but there is no way you will come anywhere near that in an indoor sports facility.

I think your expectations are very high, perhaps too high for anything non-DSLR.
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Old Sep 20, 2006, 12:40 AM   #6
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AFAIK, the Fuji cameras are the ones that will match your criteria. You can take a look at their specifications at various sites.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"For your case, you should be choosing models from the Fuji line with the "Super CCD" (As they have better high ISO performance)
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Old Sep 20, 2006, 7:54 AM   #7
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The short answer is:

There is NO, I repeat NO digicam on the market yet that is a good low light sports solution. The best high ISO performer is the F30 by all accounts - it has ISO 3200 - but not enough zoom and you also have the issue of how well it does in it's servo focusing, burst rate and buffer handling. Also, there eare times when you must use flash so any sports camera should have a hotshoe (built in flashes are way too weak to do the job). And, by all reliable reviews the performance still doesn't come close to matching the true high ISO DSLR performers (entire Canon series, Nikon D50).

You've chosen one of the most demanding areas of photography (demanding from the standpoint of what it demands from the gear itself) and you want a cheap solution. It doesn't exist.

The digicams are getting better noise performance but those that have it are geared towards the 'shot at a party or club' user - not the sport user.

The only camera I would currently recommend for indoor sports is the Canon 30D. The only other possibility is the Nikon D80 if, when properly tested, it's proven they've finally beat the high ISO noise issues they've had with every camera over the D50 (which has excellent noise signature but only ISO 1600 and I believe 3fps burst).

For your volleybll and basketball photos you would pair that 30d with a Canon 85mm 1.8 lens ($360). For hockey, I'm not sure if you could still get away with something like a 70-200 2.8 - I would think the brightness of the ice would help keep you in a 2.8 zoom but I don't shoot hockey so I can't comment.

In all honesty, I have yet to see any acceptable low light sports shots from any non DSLR. So, I think with your goals you'll just be wasting money trying to do this on the cheap.

And for outdoor sports - some of the better digicams are capable of capturing sports shots - but you still don't have the burst rates and buffer handling to do serious sports shooting. And, for almost all of them, the sensor size pevents you from getting the background blur necessary in a good sports shot.

I'm only saying all this because it sounds like you want to do a lot of sports shooting. If it was just: my son is in his last year of baseball - then it might be a different story. But wanting to shoot as many sports as you seem to - you'll invariably be disappointed quickly with a digicam solution.

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Old Sep 20, 2006, 9:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
The short answer is:

There is NO, I repeat NO digicam on the market yet that is a good low light sports solution. The best high ISO performer is the F30 by all accounts - it has ISO 3200 - but not enough zoom and you also have the issue of how well it does in it's servo focusing, burst rate and buffer handling. Also, there eare times when you must use flash so any sports camera should have a hotshoe (built in flashes are way too weak to do the job). And, by all reliable reviews the performance still doesn't come close to matching the true high ISO DSLR performers (entire Canon series, Nikon D50).

You've chosen one of the most demanding areas of photography (demanding from the standpoint of what it demands from the gear itself) and you want a cheap solution. It doesn't exist.

The digicams are getting better noise performance but those that have it are geared towards the 'shot at a party or club' user - not the sport user.

The only camera I would currently recommend for indoor sports is the Canon 30D. The only other possibility is the Nikon D80 if, when properly tested, it's proven they've finally beat the high ISO noise issues they've had with every camera over the D50 (which has excellent noise signature but only ISO 1600 and I believe 3fps burst).

For your volleybll and basketball photos you would pair that 30d with a Canon 85mm 1.8 lens ($360). For hockey, I'm not sure if you could still get away with something like a 70-200 2.8 - I would think the brightness of the ice would help keep you in a 2.8 zoom but I don't shoot hockey so I can't comment.

In all honesty, I have yet to see any acceptable low light sports shots from any non DSLR. So, I think with your goals you'll just be wasting money trying to do this on the cheap.

And for outdoor sports - some of the better digicams are capable of capturing sports shots - but you still don't have the burst rates and buffer handling to do serious sports shooting. And, for almost all of them, the sensor size pevents you from getting the background blur necessary in a good sports shot.

I'm only saying all this because it sounds like you want to do a lot of sports shooting. If it was just: my son is in his last year of baseball - then it might be a different story. But wanting to shoot as many sports as you seem to - you'll invariably be disappointed quickly with a digicam solution.





Seems like I have to correct some facts in here.

In fact, the Nikon D70s is better at high ISO performance than the Nikon D50 in actual quality terms. So the Nikon D50 can't be rated as the best.

Yes, the images from the D50 are cleaner, but there are also more red channel noises, chroma noises in general, some NR artifacts, and a smooth plastic like look indicating smooth out details from NR processing.

The D70s doesn't seems to apply much "if any" NR at high ISO shots when ever the D50alwaysseemsto apply them. In general, the D70s doesn't use NR at higher ISO levelsas far as I can see, unlike the D50. (That uses it)


Anyway, the noise characteristics of the Nikon D70s are more "film like grain" or mono-chromic instead of having a chroma mottled like appearance.

From what I can see, the images of the D70s at ISO 1600 (2 secs) is looking crisper and better defined than the D50 at ISO 1600 (2 secs). Nevertheless, the Nikon D50 high ISO performanceis already very good.

Regarding the Nikon D80;

As far as I can see so far with the test shots, it is no better than the Nikon D50 and D70s in all honesty. (Unless something is really wrong with my pair of eyes)

I noted NR artifacts in the D80's ISO 1600 (2 secs test shots), something I just don't see on the D70s ISO 1600 test shots at 2 secs. I also noted some visible lost of image details and watercolor like effects to a certain extend. (Something not seen on the D70s shots)

Forget ISO 3200 on the D80, it is just like another "digital zoom" feature to me. The native sensitivity of the 10 MP CCD is from ISO 100 - ISO 1600; anything above that is ISO boost.

The high ISO performance of the Canon EOS 350D, 20D, 30D, D50, and the D70s are all great. (But I have the details) I know the characteristics of each and every individual models here at high ISO performance.

BTW for sports, just choose any of the cameras with great ISO performance and then concentrate on a fast prime IMO.

Don't believe those people that always tell you thatYOUMUST NEED ISO 3200, 5-8 FPS multiple burst, and a white Canontelephoto lens etc....FOR SPORTS. Actually it all boils down to your skills;as long as you have the skills, not even an R1 can stop you from getting greatshotsfrom sports.


If you are a working pro, then it is a different story.


My 2 cents.











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Old Sep 20, 2006, 10:10 AM   #9
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:
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Forget ISO 3200 on the D80, it is just like another "digital zoom" feature to me. The native sensitivity of the 10 MP CCD is from ISO 100 - ISO 1600; anything above that is ISO boost.

snip.

BTW for sports, just choose any of the cameras with great ISO performance and then concentrate on a fast prime IMO.

Don't believe those people that always tell you thatYOUMUST NEED ISO 3200, 5-8 FPS multiple burst, and a white Canontelephoto lens etc....Actually it all boils down to your skills;as long as you have the skills, not even an R1 can stop you from getting greatshotsfrom sports.


If you are a working pro, then it is a different story.


My 2 cents.










Benjamin - so based on your first hand DSLR sports shooting experience, and not just what you read or surmise but based on actual experience - what are the camera features that are important to a sports shooter?

I'vedeleted off the rest of my message but suffice it to say it amounts to this:

the tone of your message would lead a reader to believe you have actual expereince but the content tells me otherwise. So, how much sports shooting experience do you have with a DSLR?



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Old Sep 20, 2006, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Benjamin - so based on your first hand DSLR sports shooting experience, and not just what you read or surmise but based on actual experience - what are the camera features that are important to a sports shooter?

I'vedeleted off the rest of my message but suffice it to say it amounts to this:

the tone of your message would lead a reader to believe you have actual expereince but the content tells me otherwise. So, how much sports shooting experience do you have with a DSLR?







So what happens if I tell you I know of people who did not have ISO 3200, a high end Canon dSLR, 5-8 fps multiple burst, really long lenses like 300 mm or more and fast ones too, and etc etc...and they found it possible to handle sports? I am not talking about really extreme conditions or such as achieving really pro results, I am just talking about general sports photography in normal conditions where you can get good enough shots without all those "things" you always seems to mention as a "must have" for shooting sports. (Kind of putting people off in sports photography "because it is a VERY difficult and high level area of photography") Give me this sort of thinking...

It reminds me of those types of people>>> "No, you need an L glass for that" or "Canon's 1D series of pro dSLRs"

Coming to think about it;

A Nikon D50 or D70s with a fast prime such as a 85 MM F/1.8 is not capable enough for most sports??? Because we need 300-400 mm and ISO 3200 and 5-8 fps?

As I've said, if you are a working pro with certain specifications in mind, then it is a different story.

I personally think good ISO 1600, lenses fast enough with enough zoom, and a good enough buffer with good continuous shooting should be very much enough for indoor actions without flash. Things like ISO 3200, 300 mm lenses, and 5 fps just doesn't seems to come in as a need.

In fact, I saw photographers using the Nikon D50 kit for indoor actions& games with an add on flash. (They seems to be having fun) I don't see them facing any problems.

Sports photography doesn't demand so highly as I will be lead to believe. In factwhen you step into the dSLR line, you should be able to counter sports photography (minus the more extreme ones). If you add on afast prime, then thingswill get better for I.Q. and action stopping. (logically?)

In fact, I think that my combinations above should be able to deliver impressive results in action photography (probably except forthe longer range ones).







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