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Old Oct 27, 2006, 9:34 AM   #11
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:
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I read that a bigger image sensor size will always be better for a given print size, since the pixels need to be enlarged less thanon a smaller image sensor.
I think that maybe you're misunderstanding that part.

The dimensions of a pixel are not stored in the image.

The image file only contains the RGB values for each pixel. These values represent color and brightness, not physical size or dimensions.

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Old Oct 27, 2006, 9:49 AM   #12
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KM 7D w/ minolta 50mm f1.7 - hand held:

Last edited by bernabeu; Jun 27, 2015 at 5:24 PM.
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:07 AM   #13
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No JimC, I think you mistaken;

For a given print size, the larger image sensor will always be having the advantage because it's pixels need to be enlarged less.

So if you want to print a given size image with two types of image sensors, the one that is bigger with more pixelswill always produce a better print because it's pixelswill beenlarged less, compared to a smaller one with less pixels.

Picture this; even if the smaller sensor have larger pixels, it's given size print quality will still be worse because it will be having less total pixels altogether! The larger sensor with more smaller pixels will still produce a better given size print because it's pixels doesn't need to be so enlarged. When you consider the down sampling process, the larger image sensor will also be having the inherent advantage becauseit canaverage out it's noise levels; thus noise levels will have a higher frequency! (Less visible)

In this case, both smaller and larger image sensors have more or less the same pixel pitches (As covered up above) One has 8 MP (smaller), and the other (larger) have 10 MP. Clearly, the larger one in this case, with the 10 MP will be producing finer prints with lower noise levels! (As described above in the same post)

Remember, all this assumes that there is a given (fixed) print size for each!

Ofcouse, even if the larger image sensor with smaller pixels is looking noisier at 100% view compared to the smaller image sensor with larger pixels; the final print size of the larger image sensor will still be better! That is becausethe individual pixels or photo-detectors of the larger image sensor need to be enlarged less for the given print size, compared to the smaller image sensor with thelarger photo-detectors! (But lower mega pixel countsin total!) Think of the print size.
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:24 AM   #14
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:
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No JimC, I think you mistaken;
No, I'm not mistaken.

The dimensions of a pixel are not stored in the image.

An image contains RGB values that when combined, represent the color and brightness of a pixel. It contains no information that describes the physical dimensions of the pixel.

The output of a large, square pixel, would be stored exactly the same way as a tiny, round pixel, if the color and brightness were the same. Common image file formats (jpeg, tiff, etc.), are only storing values for Red, Green and Blue for each pixel. Nothing in the image files describes an individuals pixel's dimensions.

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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:35 AM   #15
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I'm not real comfortable with buying into olympus, not that I have any real specific problems.. just an overall assesment. I'm not too happy with the lens selection I've seen, for MY purposes its not the way to go.

I like Pentax, though somewhat limited in current production lenses its not bad. Prices tend to be more reasonable, and you'll probably be shopping for more tamron/sigma glass than with other brands.

Sony is a wildcard. The minolta lenses are fantastic, in many cases do NOT have a rival in canon/nikon especially when cost, circular aperture, and weight are considered. Availibility is not bad on the used market, but some patience is required. Nobody knows what new cameras and lenses are coming but the first samples look good.

Canon/nikon, not much narrative is neccasary. I think the nikon cameras are a bit more to my liking, but then canon has some nice full frame stuff that could satisfy your taste for a bigger format. I definatly prefer Canons lens line, and third party lenses are most availible for these brands (like the nice tokina 12-24).

The foveon sensor has some serious positives, but I would not like being limited to the sigma lens line.



So what am I saying? Pentax is a great company but with your pro aspirations you might want to avoid them. Best for hobbiest and non-gear-addicts (thats not you!). Canon/Nikon are at the top of the hill, but that only means so much. Sony could be a gamble long term, but I doubt it. They're here to stay. The best advantage here is the used prime lens market (the top zoom lenses are super pricey, and some of the other newer digital designs may be better (REF: canon 17-40L vs 17-55/2.8IS). Minolta 70-200/4 'beercan' is still around $200 used, and easily comparable to the $600 canon f/4L. Plus, if you've eliminated pentax, its the only body stabilized system.

The cameras themselves? They dont matter. But your goofy personality makes me think you NEED to buy canon or nikon to be happy, probably canon, they have the most gear-obsessive crowd on the net. I'm serious. Any other brand and your going to get sucked into canon anyway in the future, because of this.
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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:35 AM   #16
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JimC, maybe you should check out the link below >>> :-)

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...ensor-size.htm

There are quite a number of informations in there relating to what I have just said. :-)

[BTW, I hope thatit is alright to link some educational material] : D

Regards.




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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:45 AM   #17
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I'm well aware of how sensors work, and I'm probably more knowledgable than most people about demosaic algorithms, etc., too.

Your misinterpreting the article.

You're making incorrect assumptions that the better enlargement capabilities being discussed are because the pixels are larger in the image file. They are not. Nothing in the image file even remotely represents how large the photosite is.

Larger Photosities are usually better for a variety of reasons (lower noise levels, etc.).

But, that has nothing to do with how the information is being stored. Nothing, let me repeat, nothing in the image files describes a pixel's dimensions.

An image only contains RGB values associated with each pixel (and even that is because of demosaic algorithms that are combining the values from multiple photosites, so that red, green and blue are stored at each pixel location).

There is nothing that makes a larger pixel different than a smaller one in the way they are being represented in the image file. It's only storing RGB values for each pixel, with no data representing physical dimensions of an individual pixel.

Larger photosites can help get more accurate values for red, green and blue. But, the pixel's dimensions are not stored in any way in the image files.


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Old Oct 27, 2006, 10:56 AM   #18
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tmoreau, I am not a gear addict!!! In fact, I am completely the opposite!!!

I am not particularly fancy about having multiple lenses and stuffs along with my camera,all I want is just ONE GOOD LENS for a capable dSLR body that's it. Or if no such thing happens, then I shall go out and buy the R1! :G

I want to find one good lens that can provide wide angle to some zoom, and I don't demand for super zooms, as far as quality and (or) money is a concern! :-)

That is why you see me hitting on the Olympus; it is because of that great R1 like lens (quality optically)>>>



I don't think I can do this on other dSLR cameras.

It is probable that I will be keeping one lens attached on for a long long time, so it better be a good quality one. I'll rather have one good quality lens than with many many not so good lenses. (That's my style) :-)

Who knows,maybe Imight never never use more than one lens??? Maybe when I just fit a very good zoom such as the one above ontothe Olympus dSLR, I won't be feeling the need to have more lenses? (Especially for a currently non working student like me now, who won't be having so much money!) : D







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Old Oct 27, 2006, 11:01 AM   #19
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tmoreau wrote:
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.....you NEED to buy canon or nikon to be happy, probably canon, they have the most gear-obsessive crowd on the net. I'm serious.

:-):-)

I must agree, we Canonites are terrible. a lot of rubish tossed around that any lens that isn't an "L" is rubish; a lot of hand wringing every time new cameras come out from the competition that Canon is falling behind, etc...

You really do have us pegged.


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Old Oct 27, 2006, 11:07 AM   #20
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JimC, I KNOW how pixel works! :-)

But do you agree that a larger image sensor with MORE smaller photo-sites/pixels WILL be producing a better print quality THAN a SMALLER image sensor with LESS larger photo-sites/pixels? I meant, won't the final print from the larger image sensor be having LESS noise than fromthe other smaller image sensor because it's noisehas beenenlarged less?

All this based on a given size print for both image sensors.
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