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Old Nov 15, 2006, 8:19 AM   #1
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Well, I managed to squeezed out exactly U.S. $1100forthe "newly introduced""Nikon D80 kit here (With the 18 - 55 mmand the 50 mm F/1.8 [My choice]) Iam on the verge of almost deciding on it,but I feel the need toquestion the inferiorimage quality. (Which I hope, was a mistake on the reviewers part)

I decided that only Nikon & Canon offered me a suitable range of lenses. Pentax haverather few lenses here, so I don't think that the K10D will be a good investment. On the other hand,I also feel that the grip of the Canon EOS 350D & the Canon EOS 400D are rather tiny. (So that left me with the Nikon[s]) The bad news is, the Nikon D50 is already sold out (I can never find it), but there are still "PLENTY" of Nikon D70s around.

So hereis theissue;

The image quality of the Nikon D80 is not looking as good as the Nikon D70s' >>>

Nikon D80 with AF-S DX Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/dsc_0953.jpg

Nikon D70s with Nikkor DX 18-70 AF-S kit lens>>>

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_...s/DSC_0681.JPG

The Nikkor 18-135mm was stated by reviews to be a step up (Upgrade) from the Nikkor DX 18-70 AF-S, so I don't think that the inferior D80's image qualityhas got anything to do with lower glasses etc...

Here are sources to more images that I have looked, and they allshow the samequality >>> (I advice you to look at the first "Green roof" one at least)

Nikon D80: (Once inside; click on the full size imagelink only)

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ni.../gallery.shtml

Nikon D70s: (Once inside; click on the full size imagelink only)

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ni.../gallery.shtml

I do not know whether my eyes can be called professional eyes or not, but I just think that the images of the Nikon D80looks rather inferior to the Nikon D70s. How can that be??? The Nikon D80 is Nikon's latest digital SLR camera; it is thelatest 10 mega pixel dSLR camera on the line! :X

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"The ISO 1600 of the new Nikon D80 is supposed to be better than the ISO 1600 of the old Nikon D70s according to people; but how come the ISO 1600 of the Nikon D70s is looking better in the following images??? (This has always bugged me)>>>

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Nikon D80:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...0LL1607XNR.HTM

Nikon D70s:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...SLL1607XNR.HTM

P.S., I don't think all this is over analysis until paralysis; a cursory glance alone is enough for me to notice all this.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

I would like to know is there a way to "completely" switch off the Nikon D80's N.R.? (I heard it has something like a N.R. control panel?) It seems that the ISO 1600 abovefrom the NikonD80 (without any N.R. at all) STILL looks very much N.R. infected??? (Is there a way to100% turn off the N.R.?) As for the Nikon D70s, it's ISO 1600 images just simply looks the same; regardless of N.R. or not. (I like that)

Regarding the Nikon D80'simage quality,has it got anything to do with defective review lens sample(s)? (I also noticed a lot of C.A.[s], corner softness/blurring, detail smudginess etc...) The Nikon D70s' is all clear, well defined, & sharp.

Regards.

The thing that is putting me toward the Nikon D80 is the smaller size. (I agree that the Nikon D70s is more chunky) The Nikon D80 is also newer, so I think it will have a better resale value later; compared to the already old Nikon D70s. The Nikon D80 also doesn't have the moire problems, which I am worried will be bugging me later on with the Nikon D70s. Finally admittedly, I am now wearing glasses, and the viewfinder of the Nikon D80 is bigger. (For glasses, I feel that live previews are better as my glasses keep on touching the viewfinder....)
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Old Nov 15, 2006, 10:46 AM   #2
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Nevermind minute differences in image quality, can you get a d70/d50/d40 for $100-$300 cheaper? If so, buy a 28/2.8 or 35/2 and never look back. Nothing wrong with used lenses either, especially from a reputable place like KEH.com.

The difference will be go beyond your pixel peeping hobby, it will actually affect your photography.

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Old Nov 15, 2006, 11:11 AM   #3
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Let us know when you take the plunge and buy a camera.
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Old Nov 15, 2006, 11:17 AM   #4
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Quote:

Nevermind minute differences in image quality, can you get a d70/d50/d40 for $100-$300 cheaper? If so, buy a 28/2.8 or 35/2 and never look back. Nothing wrong with used lenses either, especially from a reputable place like KEH.com.

The difference will be go beyond your pixel peeping hobby, it will actually affect your photography.

Oh no! That Nikkor AF 28mm f/2.8D is supposed to be a bad lens!!! >>> http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...8_28/index.htm

I agree with you that the Nikkor AF 35mm f/2 D is a superior prime though >>>

http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...35_2/index.htm

Is the Nikon D40 even supposed to be out yet? The D50 seems to be already phased out here; I never saw it again since months ago!! (With D70s still all around)

BTW, there is no such thing as used lenses in my country! (Where only the new and latest lenses are available!) (Same goes to the cameras)

I mean, every camera shopI go; I only see Canon or Nikon lenses only, and those doesn't includes the older ones as well! For example, now they are all only selling/promoting the latest NikonD.X. lens series. (I can only hope to be getting all those!) My country is not restricted in this manner; but when it comes to camera stuffs, it only focuson thelatest & greatest! (Something I DISAGREE!!)

It is always easy to get the newest lenses here, but thenit gets extremely hard to get lenses that are slightly older...Such as non D.X. Nikkors...

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Old Nov 15, 2006, 11:32 AM   #5
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I own both the D70s and D80. I bought the D80 for the viewfinder and the screen on the back. All the rest was just icing on the cake. I bought the D80 body and use my 18-70 that came with my D70s. I like the lens and intend to buy the 18-200 so I didn't get the 18-135, I also didn't like the plastic mount. Using the same lens on both cameras I can tell you both produce outstanding results. The D80 focuses more consistently and the exposure seems brighter. I do think the results are a bit soft and I do sharpen a bit before printing on both cameras. I like the size of the D70 better, but it's a small point. Noise was never an issue for either camera, I know you can push anything to an extreme and find faults, but in my real world use I have no complaints at any ISO or with either camera. Does the 10 mp vs. 6 mp make a difference? Some, but at 13x19 the prints are not much different so yet another small point. Both cameras will give you exceptional results, don't sweat the test results at the extremes.
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Old Nov 15, 2006, 11:52 AM   #6
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If you prefer the IQ of the D70, then get it. No one is forcing or telling you to buy a D80. I prefer the D80's IQ, and although the difference between 6 and 10MP is not all that big, since I do some stock work the extra MP is useful. Some have complained about metering problems with the D80 (tendency to overexpose) in matrix, and many complaints about hot pixels when using higher ISO's. The D80 does provide alot more customization for IQ. I haven't shot alot of high iso shots (I will be doing some this weekend) but haven't had any problems the few times I have. The 18-135 is sharper than the 18-70mm, but does produce more distortion and show more CA. As with everything else, its a trade off. In terms of size, it's not a whole lot smaller than the D70, not really enough to make a huge difference.

But seriously, IQ is as much a personal choice..there is no right or wrong, and if you don't like the d80's images, don't get it. I looked at most of the images in your links, and to me the D80 images shown, look a bit overexposed, which may be causing some of your concern. Either way, you can't go wrong, and I wouldn't buy anything that you're not ahppy with.


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Old Nov 15, 2006, 12:46 PM   #7
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Quote:

The D80 does provide alot more customization for IQ.
I would like to know more about it please. Thanks. (Non sarcasm)

Quote:

Noise was never an issue for either camera, I know you can push anything to an extreme and find faults, but in my real world use I have no complaints at any ISO or with either camera.

That's nice to hear from someone who have experienced both dSLR(s). (A valuable information for me)

However, I am more concerned about the image definition, image details, and the image crispness athigh ISO levels (Especially ISO 1600)actually, not abouthow noise-free the images are. (Considering that I can perform any N.R. works with softwares)

I will be using the camera to shoot indoor stage shots under the "non camera friendly" incandescent lightings; often with some medium speed actions. (The images will be printed, and or directly displayed etc...So I need the best of quality possible)

I need the confidence to use the ISO levels up to the ISO 1600 level; without having the fear that my images will be poor in quality. The end of the year is at hand...I have Christmas, New Year, and open event duties to fulfill, and cliants...eh sorry, I meantthe mediapeople; would want results!! (A flash would be nice if only I could use it!) Flash would not be permitted in the upcoming Christmas event, and the big D.B.F.D. event (Where active video devices would be used for serious recordings). I could use flash however, in the end of the year New Year celebration period.

A camera with good...eh...Great high ISO performance will be most required! Now that I had already lost(ed) the opportunity to get the Nikon D50 (It is no longer in stock)) I only have the Nikon D70s and the Nikon D80!! (I don't like the Canon's tiny grip!) Will like to hear more about Nikon D70s high ISO V.S. Nikon D80 high ISO.

Thanks.

P.S., I wonder why the shutter sound of the Nikon dSLR(s) are among the loudest!! :shock:The A100's just sounded piercing...The Canon's one just sounded sissy; a small "Click" that's all, when compared.
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Old Nov 15, 2006, 1:19 PM   #8
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BenjaminXYZ wrote:
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I need the confidence to use the ISO levels up to the ISO 1600 level; without having the fear that my images will be poor in quality. The end of the year is at hand...
I guess I don't understand your needs, the photos you want to take are difficult with any equipment and will always require some compromise. My experience with high ISOs have always been fine if properly exposed. Fine is not magazine quality perfect lighting, perfect composition, and perfect exposure with no issues. Fine tells the story or expresses the emotion I wanted when I took the photo. If you take a light meter and find out what you need to expose the shot (shutter speed, ISO, and aperture) allgive and take from oneother. The only real variable is the lens assuming the camera is constant. So youbuy a faster lens and give the other two more room to work and take less of a compromise, but now you don't have the depth of field you want... more compromise. I guess you have to decide what is good enough and buy it or buy pro equipment to do pro work. I confidently use ISO 1600 when I need it and am happy with the stories my photos tell.
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Old Nov 15, 2006, 3:22 PM   #9
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ReneB3 wrote:
Quote:
BenjaminXYZ wrote:
Quote:
I need the confidence to use the ISO levels up to the ISO 1600 level; without having the fear that my images will be poor in quality. The end of the year is at hand...
I guess I don't understand your needs, the photos you want to take are difficult with any equipment and will always require some compromise. My experience with high ISOs have always been fine if properly exposed. Fine is not magazine quality perfect lighting, perfect composition, and perfect exposure with no issues. Fine tells the story or expresses the emotion I wanted when I took the photo. If you take a light meter and find out what you need to expose the shot (shutter speed, ISO, and aperture) allgive and take from oneother. The only real variable is the lens assuming the camera is constant. So youbuy a faster lens and give the other two more room to work and take less of a compromise, but now you don't have the depth of field you want... more compromise. I guess you have to decide what is good enough and buy it or buy pro equipment to do pro work. I confidently use ISO 1600 when I need it and am happy with the stories my photos tell.
I couldn't agree more. I've used both,(semi professionally) and although the D80 wins, its not by a whole bunch, and will be barely perceptible at normal print sizes.

In terms of the customization options, they are too numerous and detailed to list. Check out Steves review for an idea. In short, color, hue, sharpening, etc are adjustable and the options are plentiful.

1600 iso is not going to yield art gallery prints under any circumstances. It get you nice enough prints to remember the moment. Unless your shooting architecture, or other items with fine lines and details, superfine detail rendering is not as important. I assume you'll be shooting portraits and candids, which are reproduced better with softer details anyway.
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