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Old Nov 26, 2006, 11:16 AM   #1
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I'm having real real difficulty after weeks of research choosing between the Canon SD 700IS, 800IS, Fuji F30 and Sony W100 for my third digital camera. My first was a canon powershot and I'm currently on the Olympus C-765UZ.

With the two Canons my dilemna is this:

1) What appeals more: 28mm lens with corner softness tradeoffs or better optical zoom?

2) Does the new processor in the 800 actually improve image quality or does it just add the odd new feature like face detection?


The Sony from what I have seen appears to offer stunning outdoor image quality - the best of the bunch I think. But:

3) Will I be able to take sharp indoor shots at ISO400 on the Sony without flash? I suspect not. The lack of IS or the F30's phenominal ISO capabilities is a real problem.

As for the Fuji,

4) Obviously it's phenominal indoors but is the outdoor image quality that bad in comparison to the others? I'm not sure I'd even notice in 7x5 prints. I will be using the camera mainly for holiday snaps when I go travelling - would a Canon or Sony perform better? I don't mind doing PS editing.

5) Finally are there any products in development that may provide the answer post-Christmas?

I've added the questionnaire to help a bit.

Size

pocketable

Features

6+ MP
Best possible image quality

Do you care for manual controls?

Only a night mode and white balance

General Usage

Mainly outdoor sunlight shots, but also some darker indoor use.
Won't be printing above 8x6


Miscellaneous

Have had good experiences with Canon products


Thanks in advance for any advice, I really am completely lost so it would be very much appreciated.
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Old Nov 26, 2006, 11:56 AM   #2
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JS-

The biggest problem, in my opinion, with the Canon SD 700 IS and 800IS is their tendancy to really loose detail in their photos as the ISO setting is increased. The new item on the SD 800IS is the use of the Digic III processor. The Digic III handles the extra mp with about the same image quality in bright sunshine nicely, but detail smudging is thereal factor that raises red flags for me.

The Fuji F-30 does well inside at high ISO settings, but does not do well outside in good sunshine. The S-6000/S-6500 combines the F-30 processor with the S-9000/S-9500's lens set up, which nicely features manual zoom and focus rings, and face detection. The outdoor capabilities have been improved, but the face detection causes some mis-focusing, and it still has some initial production problems to work its way through.

I use a Sony H-5 and think that it is a great camera, it works well BOTH inside and outside. The inside shotsmake-up the area that you were concerned about. I am attaching a shot done at ISO 400 with no flash that pretty well takes care of those concerns. I also like the very effective IS on the H-5. I have lots of hands on experience with the H-5, but not with the W series. With you moving from an Olympus C-765UZ, I would think that the H-2/H-5 cameras, with 12X optical zoom would be a natural camera to consider.

I noticed that you were interested in wide angle as well. I also like wide angle, so when the price on the Sony R-1 began to really fall, I picked up a Sony R-1 at an excellent price. That gives megreat 24mm wideangle shot and pairs up nicely with the H-5. Keep in mind that the Kodak P-880, which also has 8mp and a 24mm lens as well is now on sale at www.compusa.com for $299. So you have lots of options.

MT
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Old Nov 26, 2006, 7:18 PM   #3
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From what I have read in reviews, the H5 doesn't do any better than the Canon's or Kodaks in high ISO. The ISO 400 was pretty bad in the this review.

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/sony/dsc_h5-review/

Of course ISO 400 is not good for almost all cameras but the Fuji's.
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 12:12 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies - alas if I didn't specifically need a pocketable camera I might have more luck!

I've just read a thread over at dpreview which gave the canon a good old bashing. Now I'm stuck between the 800IS and the F30.

- People moan about lack of sharpness in the Canon but it is not visible to my eyes and apparently not to the pro's either judging the reviews. At 7x5 will it make any difference?

- The Fuji obviously beats everything hands-down in terms of ISO, but I think the majority of my low-light shots are not of moving subjects, so I think with the IS on the Canon the two should be fairly comparable.

-Outdoor ability is the most important issue for me. Though I'm happy to play with photoshop I'm not an expert and I'm concerned that I might not get the best out of the Fuji outdoors.

-Finally, if I do have to use ISO400+ with IS on the Canon and the result is noisy, would running the image through neatimage or similar solve my problems?


The more dodgy threads I read on forums, the more I'm holding back on my instinct to buy the Canon. Can somebody reassure me about the 800IS?

Thanks very much
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 12:27 PM   #5
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Hi,

I'm in same shoes as you.

I'm trying to decide for over the week.

For methe camera musttake outdoor picturesas nice as possible.Of course I will use it indoor as well.But In dont think I will find a small,P&S camera to have best picture indoor and also outdoor.

I'm leaning towards Canon but SD700IS as oppose to SD800IS,I dont see any real difference for extra money.I dont want to go over $300.



I really like the design of Canon SDxx (of course that's not the main future I should look at).

Let us know how did you decide,maybe that way I finally decide what to buy.
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 10:07 AM   #6
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The truth is that, if you want a pocket camera, the Fuji F-20, F-30, and the F-31fd are going to do a much better job than the Canondigicams when shooting at ISO settings above ISO 400.

MT/Sarah
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 3:13 PM   #7
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Hi js797

Faced the same problem as yourself yesterday between the Fuji F30 and the Sony W100 for the wife, people on these forums are asleep, you hardly see anyone mention the W100, picked and bought this over the F30, and this late hour have just run some tests with it.

Why the W100?

Optical viewfinder (not on F30)

8.1 megapixel (great for cropping)

7 element lens

Manual:has got 2manual setting, Wide: f/2.8 or f/5.6 Tele= f/5.2 or f/10, 30sec-1000th (great for long exposure landscapes)

ISO up to 1250

Smart Zoom: using 5 megapixel: take the tele-end from 114mm out to 137mm without loss of quality.

made in Japan

No doubt this camera runs 2nd behind the Fuji F30for lowlight performance with 800 ISO being usable with Noiseware or simalar, 400 ISOis fantastic for a pocket camera, have not tried 1000 or 1250 ISO yet only owned it for 14 hours.

As you have found,for daylight photography, willeasily beatthe F30, leaving for 31 daysin the Philippines, Singaporeand Thailand in 2 weeks, and wish to thank the review on this site for discovering this little wonder camera, just hope the H5 which I got for myself and have not tested9 days ago gives me as good as satifaction as this little baby.

As a travel camera it has winner written all over it.

Hope this helps

Some of my images from my beloved F707,4 years old and still my favorite:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/













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Old Nov 30, 2006, 4:10 PM   #8
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Wirraway-

Thanks for posting. I have read somewhat conflicting reports on the W-100. I would be very interested to see some sample photos at ISO 800 from the W-100. The biggest complaint is that the W-100 selects shutter speed too low to handhold at high ISO settings.

I have been very pleased with my Fuji F-30 and S-6000. Here is a sample photo taken during a hospital visit this morning with the S-6000 of the Nurse's Station.

It was taken handheld/ISO 400/1/50th/F 3.9/under ceiling mounted flourescent lights:

MT/Sarah
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 5:36 PM   #9
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High Sara

Yes I am fully aware of the F30's low light performance, and if you follow the Fuji forum over on dpreview you will find the the same problem about the camera picking high ISO's there, unlike yourself, I never shoot in Auto anyway, with this little camera either P mode or Manual where you can choose the f/ number and shutter speed as well as the ISO, so there will not be a problem.

When I get time (just been told off by the wife for staying up all night, now 8:06am Fri morning here) I will try Auto to see how it goes, I never post testimages that are just that test images, Sara next time your in a camera store check this camera out, I am dead confident you will be impressed.

Also check Steve's review here, that is how I found out about it as Ihad never checkedout these compact cameras before, a few weeks back I was asking myself what did I want betweenthe H5 and the F30 and decided to go for the fun factor with the H5, and low and behold my wife says she wants her own small camera for our upcoming trip, so for her untill I can teach her to shoot in P mode I guess she will use auto which I confess I have not tried out.

Your shot above can easily be matched by this camera, and reading the exif, a tip from the Fuji forum is change both the focus and exposure settings on your camerato centre weighted, worth a try.

OK, I don't know where you got your information from, just tested the W100in auto and you can choose any ISO you like, ie: 80, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1250 or Auto ISO, I note that you teach photography, do you teach your students to shoot in Auto only?, when no matter what the brand of camera, if it has at least P mode they will get better performance than auto only.

Time to get a bit of sleep.

Regards Wirraway






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Old Nov 30, 2006, 6:00 PM   #10
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Wirraway,

I must respond to your post...you said...

"people on these forums are asleep, " What is that supposed to mean? Because no one recommended the camera you chose, we're not as smart as you?

" No doubt this camera runs 2nd behind the Fuji F30for lowlight performance ..." That statement I agree with.

" As you have found,for daylight photography, willeasily beatthe F30,..." I haven't found that. What do you base that statement on?

Pros and cons...

"Optical viewfinder (not on F30)"... You'll probably need one, since the LCD on the W100 only has half of the resolution of the F30's.

"8.1 megapixel (great for cropping)"... More MP + smaller sensor = more noise.

"7 element lens"... ??? So what?

"Manual:has got 2manual setting, Wide: f/2.8 or f/5.6 Tele= f/5.2 or f/10, 30sec-1000th (great for long exposure landscapes)"...??? Not sure what that means. Hope you don't mean long exposure in low light.

"ISO up to 1250" ...F30 has ISO up to 3200.

"Smart Zoom: using 5 megapixel: take the tele-end from 114mm out to 137mm without loss of quality." ...??? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of buying an 8 MP camera? Isn't that a loss of quality? In other words, it has digital zoom, or in-camera cropping...at a reduced resolution.

"made in Japan"...??? So what?

Then you post a link to your F707 pics. They're very nice pics, by the way, and you are obviously an extremely accomplished photographer, but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand? Are you trying to say that Sony cameras are better than anything else - here's proof?

The OP had some questions which you didn't attempt to answer...you were too busy telling us we were asleep, or that we had already determined the W100 blows the F30 away...the OP said...

"Will I be able to take sharp indoor shots at ISO400 on the Sony without flash? I suspect not." Is that a true statement?

"Obviously it's phenominal indoors but is the outdoor image quality that bad in comparison to the others? I'm not sure I'd even notice in 7x5 prints." Are the Fuji outdoor shots all that bad?

I'm not knocking the W100...it seems like a very nice cam, with a lot of great features. I just object to the tone of your post.

the Hun







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