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Old Dec 17, 2006, 7:52 AM   #11
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you will need a camera that has full manual control of the aperture, shutter speed and focus simultaneously. The aperture and shutter speed should have a range of five stops each.
That pretty much rules out any digital camera other than a DSLR (except possibly the R1, which uses a DSLR sized sensor). Most digicams don't give more than about 4 stops of aperture range. The typical range is f2.8-f8.0, which is 4 stops. The small sensors on these cameras would suffer too much from diffraction at apertures smaller than f8.0. To get 5 stops, you would have to have a lens that starts at f2.0, the stops being f2.0-f2.8-f4.0-f5.6-f8.0.

Thus, the older Canon Powershot G6 is the only digicam I know that technically meets these requirments (or the still older G5). But, I would guess that the person writing the requirements wasn't fully aware of how limited the selection would be; and a 4 stop range will probably do.

Also, Canon isn't the only one that sometimes labels "program" mode "manual" on cameras without a full manual mode. Fuji does the same thing, and I'm sure there are others. The Canon A series cameras do normally have a full manual mode though.

You might try a search for your criteria here:
link

Assuming 4 stops of aperture range is sufficient, many of the popular ultrazooms will do.

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Old Dec 17, 2006, 11:50 AM   #12
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I have the older Canon S1IS which has a full manual mode, but manual focus is useless and it has a hard time focusing in low light which is why I am moving to the dSLR camp.
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 5:43 PM   #13
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Heres a little info I complied on the two final cameras on my list.

Sony H5: Aperture 10 stops, Shutter 46 stops

Canon S3 IS: Aperture 10 stops, Shutter 48 stops



Anyone know anything about the manual focus on these two cameras. I'm also wondering If the purple fringing issue I hear with theH5 is a serious one that would show up on 8.5 x 11 size prints. Anyone know? I'm leaning towards the H5 because it's 1 more MP, lighter and only needs two AA size batteries compared to four on the S3 IS.



~Josh
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 6:43 PM   #14
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Sony H5: Aperture 10 stops, Shutter 46 stops

Canon S3 IS: Aperture 10 stops, Shutter 48 stops
You're confusing steps and stops. "Stop" has a specific meaning in photography. One stop means you double (or half) the amount of light, or exposure.

The aperture range of the S3 IS is f2.7-f8.0. That's a range of just over 4 stops. There may be 10 steps within that range.

Similarly, the shutter speed range is 15 seconds to 1/3200. That's a range of about 16.5 stops. There may be 48 steps within that range (it likely moves in 1/3 of a stop steps).

The H5, similarly has an aperture range of f2.8-f8.0, and a shutter speed range of 30 seconds to 1/2000.

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Old Dec 17, 2006, 8:17 PM   #15
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For the class I need at least 5 stops for aperture and shutter after reading the info I got earlier again this is how it fairs up.

Sony H5: Aperture 10 stops, Shutter 46 steps
Canon S3 IS: Aperture 10 stops, Shutter 48 steps

and if 3 steps = 1 stop roughly. that should be 15-16 stops. Am I correct?

But I still can't find exact info on the manual focus stop count anyone know
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 9:38 PM   #16
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If you truely need 5 full stops of aperture then neither the S3 nor H5 has what is needed, especially true when at tele when you lossanotherstop.

Some older Sonys digicams go from f2.0 to at least f8 and I am sure the same is true of the older models in the Canon range.

The old F828 has a range of wide, f2 - f8 and tele f2.8 - f8

Shutter priority would give you these steps.

30, 25, 20, 15, 13, 10, 8, 7, 5, 4, 3, 2.5, 2, 1.6, 1.3, 1, 1/1.3, 1/1.6, 1/2, 1/2.5, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/13, 1/15, 1/20, 1/25, 1/30, 1/40, 1/50, 1/60, 1/80, 1/100, 1/125, 1/160, 1/200, 1/250, 1/320, 1/400, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000, 1/1250, 1/1600, 1/2000 sec


The modern R1 would perhapsbe an idea.

Wide: F2.8, F3.2, F3.5, F4.0, F4.5, F5.6, F6.3, F7.1, F8, F9, F10, F11, F12, F14, F16
• Tele: F4.8, F5.6, F6.3, F7.1, F8.0, F9, F10, F11, F12, F14, F16

Half a stop short of the required range at tele though.

You should also check what they mean exactly by 5 stops..

Egweseem to be currently regarding the range f2.8 to f8 as 4 stops sincethefstop table goes 2.8 - 4.0 - 5.6 - 8, so thats 4 values to choose from , yetits only a range or difference of 3 stops ..


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Old Dec 17, 2006, 10:52 PM   #17
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maybe this will help a bit of info from the classes orientation page. Hepefulyy it helps. since some of it is beyond me hence why I'm taking the class

You will need a 35mm camera that has full manual control of the aperture, shutter speed and focus simultaneously. This is not the same as having a camera with aperture or shutter speed priority. You are very shortly going to learn how to control your camera's exposure settings for maximum readability within your image. This means YOU have to be in complete control of your camera's exposure settings. (Don't worry if you are currently unfamiliar with how to use a 35mm camera. We will walk you through it step by step.)

The aperture and shutter speed should have a range of five stops each. This means that it must have five units of measure for the aperture (the adjustable diaphragm in your lens). A standard example of this could be f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16 or f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16, f/22. If your lens has more settings, this is fine. If it has less, you will come into some real challenges in our later assignments that you will have to work around.

The camera may either be digital or film. If it is digital, be sure it is at least 5 mege pixels as you will be making prints from your images and getting them to me on campus.

If the S3 and H5 don't fit this what does except for DSLRs which are out of my price range.
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 1:13 AM   #18
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On a tight budget, your best bet for an actual DSLR would be the Pentax K110D. It can currently be had new, with the kit lens, for about $420 after rebate from buydig.com or beach camera.
link

It's exactly the same as the popular K100D, but without the stabilization feature. Steve's review of the K100D is here:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/k100d.html

You could also consider a 35mm film camera.

Or, if you can find one used, there are just a couple of older model digicams that have lenses which start at f/2.0, which would cover a range of f2.0-f8.0, meeting the criteria described. I don't know why there are no current models with lenses brighter than f2.7 or f2.8; in most respects cameras have improved since 2004. But that's how old the Canon G6 and Sony F828 models are. Also from that year, the Canon powershot Pro 1 and Olympus C-8080 get close, starting at f2.4.

Due to the smaller sensors on the consumer digicams, however, they are pretty much limited by the laws of physics of the camera from going much past about f8.0. So to get a 5 stop range they need to start at f2.0, running f2.0-f8.0 rather than the f4.0-f16.0 given as an example in your class description.

Or get something like the S3 or H5 (or H2, which is more directly comparable to the S3) and deal with having to work around the limitations in some assignments. All cameras at some point have some limitations. It won't stop you from learning photography.

On a very low budget, the Canon A series (like the A530) are very good for learning. And if you really want a long telephoto, the superzooms you are looking at are very good compromises as well. But if you can afford to step up to an entry level DSLR, there's a pretty good jump up in quality there if you want to get really serious about your picture taking.

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Old Dec 19, 2006, 3:16 PM   #19
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I just check the H2 and S3 IS both had basiclt these options for aperture.

F2.8, F3.2, F3.5, F4.0, F4.5, F5.6, F6.3, F7.1, F8, and maybe a 2.0 assuming the H5 is the same it looks like the H5 is better but close call with the S3
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Old Dec 19, 2006, 4:10 PM   #20
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You aren't going to get f2.0 on any of the superzoom cameras mentioned. The H2 and H5 are both limited to f2.8 at wide and f3.7 at full telephoto. The S3 is f2.7 and f3.5 respectively, which is a little better.

Assuming the instructor is asking for f22 for maximum depth of field, f8 on the superzooms will probably maximize DOF as well as f22 on a 35mm SLR – probably more. Where you will have problems compared to the SLRs, especially 35mm, is in blurring the background with the lens open. No camera with a small sensor does that very well.

Even considering film and development, a used 35mm SLR might be your best bet budget wise for the course. It appears the instructor will be requiring prints, so it won't be that big a difference. From the instructions you posted I'm guessing the course is going to be 35mm SLR oriented anyway. If you shop around you probably won't take too big a hit when you resell it if you want to go completely digital after the course.

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