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Old Dec 28, 2006, 2:12 PM   #11
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yeah ... what mansell says ... bying a high end consumer P&S was a big mistake for me too, and I realised that very fast and got a DSLR as I mentioned before you will miss all the great shots because you will be waiting for the P&S to start first, then focus then release shutter ... which will take up to 5-10 seconds. how many 2,3,4,5,6 year olds will wait that long? with DSLRs you can turn it on and take a shot in less then one second. that;s the difference ... and that's what one can sell to their Mrs.
Don't know where you get your 5-10 sec number from - I guess your Kodak.

I go from turning my Fuji S6000 on to snapping in 4 sec. Say the camera is on a table. If you pick it up and turn it on at the same time - which is what I usually do, just the one hand required - the camera is ready to focus by the time I bring it up to my eye. Focus in a window-lit room on a cloudy day took 0.5 sec.

I've noticed, O.S., that you bash point-n-shoots quite a bit. It's great that you have a DSLR and enjoy it so much. But many people simply don't have the time/budget/desire/whatever to acquire a DSLR, lenses, etc. Many serious and professional photographers carry a good point-n-shoot camera with them in addition to a DSLR if they need to get a quick snap off.

In fact, if you look around on this and other forums, there are many SLR owners who search for a good P&S because they don't want to lug around a larger camera.

Every kind of camera has a place and purpose, and I don't believe anybody doubts the superiority of DSLRs with regards to picture quality. But with the cameras I've owned over the last 2 years - Canons A85, A620, Kodak C875 and Fuji S6000fd - I've been able to get decent indoor and outdoor photos of people and animals in action, and I've seen many people do much better than I. Foresight, awareness and preparedness are the best tools when photographing life.


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Old Dec 29, 2006, 9:11 AM   #12
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flippedgazelle - I can not agree with you more. at the same time I know that for the same money one can spend on P&S you can buy a DSLR and start enjoying photography as rfortson mentioned.
The PROs and others who have a DSLR buy P&S cameras to have it with them at all times because they know their choices and make an informed decision. Many people have no clue what a DSLR can offer and get frustrated with photography as I almost did untill I tried a Canon 300d for just 1 minute - I knew on the spot that a DSLR is what I need to have. All I am trying to say is the DSLRs have a lot going for them and one should consider them when testing cameras at a camera store.
I know for a fact that I missed too many shots with my Olympus 8080 and I still miss some with my Canon 300d because it take 2 seconds to start up. But I don't miss any shots when I have it in hand because it has an instant focus and instant shutter release. if you are photographing kids - these are more important then any other feature in a camera.
I am may be too excited about DSLRs and it is only because I got one 2 years ago and I am so glad that I did and I want to share this with other people who may try one and say ... now that's what I was looking for.... as I did

by the way flippedgazelle - which camera did you pick?
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Old Dec 29, 2006, 11:08 AM   #13
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O.S.,

A few things you said in this thread aren't really true...

"...for the same money one can spend on P&S you can buy a DSLR..."

Oh really? Maybe you need a math refresher...let's take examples from this thread...

The cheapest DSLR mentioned here (with stated price) is the Pentax K110D = $400 (AFTER mail-in rebate), with kit lens.

Let's compare to a non-DSLR that was mentioned in this thread...the Fuji S6000 = $315 (AFTER mail-in rebate). But wait, the S6000 has a 28-300mm zoom range...does the K110D? No - you will have to buy another lens in order to have the same range.

Let's add a 50-200mm zoom for $180 (AFTER mail-in rebate)...Now we're up to $580 for the cheapest entry level DSLR on the market. Of course, that price is after rebate, so you have to shell out $680 to get the camera, and if you have to pay sales tax, that's on top of the selling price.

Let's compare prices: DSLR = $580; P&S = $315. Winner: P&S

"with DSLRs you can turn it on and take a shot in less then one second. that;s the difference..."

But that's not really true, is it?

"...I missed too many shots with my Olympus 8080 and I still miss some with my Canon 300d because it take 2 seconds to start up."

In reality, the Canon 300D takes 3.09 seconds to start up. (times taken from professional review sites)

Let's compare some timings between the Fuji S6000 P&S to your Canon 300D DSLR [DSLR results]...Start-up 1.8 seconds [3.09]...power off 1.1 [up to 12 seconds, depending on buffer load]; auto focus lag 0.35 [0.25]; pre-focus lag 0.02 [0.142]; cycle time 2.0 [0.46/2.30/4.53 gets longer as buffer fills]; flash recycle 2.7 [unknown]. Winner - P&S

"you will miss all the great shots because you will be waiting for the P&S to start first, then focus then release shutter..."

"you may regret you got a piece of s#$% camera because you find that you can not focus and take a priceless shoot of your kid because your P&S can not focus and release shutter the moment you press it ... a DSLR would ... and that's a difference between taking and missing a shot. and don't even get me started on the picture quality differences...."

Based on the times I found on professional review sites, if you shut your Canon 300D off after shooting several shots in rapid succession, then realize little Johnny is doing something really cute and should be photographed, it could take as long as 15.09 seconds before your cam is up and ready to shoot again...by that time, little Johnny could be on the next block. The S6000 could be ready in just 2.9 seconds - which one is faster?

Photo quality: Winner DSLR. Although the P&S's are getting better all the time...here is an interseting comparison between the F30 and the D50, taken at ISO 800:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf30/page14.asp

No one, including my self is going to contest the photographic quality of a DSLR vs. a P&S, but you need to realize that: 1. Everyone doesn't want to spend $600 on a camera. 2. Everyone doesn't want to lug big heavy cameras and extra lenses around everywhere they go. 3. Everyone doesn't want to have to worry about cleaning dust off mirrors and sensors. 4. Everyone doesn't want to spend hours post-processing raw images to get the best out of every pixel. 5. Everyone doesn't care whether their pictures are good enough for National Geographic submission - they don't care. 6. And some people might like to take a short video clip once in a while, without having to carry a camcorder around with them.

Moral of the story - stop trying to ram DSLR's down everybody's throat who asks what camera they should buy...last time I checked, the name of this forum wasn't Steve's DSLR's.

the Hun



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Old Dec 29, 2006, 12:15 PM   #14
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thanks rinniethehunfor your post, but now i'm confused more than ever. I really did want a dslr, but i don't want to feel the anxiety of not having the appropriate lens for those moments where i might need it and i definately don't want to be carrying 2 cameras all the time. My MAIN thing is that i don't want to miss my son's moments and i definately want great quality pics, i had a sony mavica before 3 mp and i couldn't really complain, of course you can definately tell the difference in quality between those pics and dslr. In the end i got the s3is like i mentioned because of the lens issue i didn't want to spend more than $600 or so, i still have my SLR-film (nikon n50), for those times where i dress my son up and want professional type quality pics...did i make the wrong decision???
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Old Dec 29, 2006, 2:59 PM   #15
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rinniethehun and others who may have gotten offended by my oppinion that a DSLR is better ....
I am not pretending to have an objective know-it-all oppinion and I hope you smart enough not to base any decision making on just what I or anyone else said. everything is subjective. My Canon takes 2-3 or whatever seconds to start up that's why I am upgrading. and that's why it is always on when I have it in my hands and it set not to go to sleep.
any modern DSLR is on instantly - hence my comment ... I was not saying buy canon 300d it wll be instant on ... so I found your comments funny.

I am not pretending I know all the prices for all the cameras, I have no time to browse the net to collect all the numbers ... I am not keeping myself upto date and not planning to, all I know - I bought an Olympus 8080 and hated it for 2 month, then I sold it and bought myself a used canon 300d which I love for the same money I sold my Olympus for. I did not realise at the time how much more camera I was getting for the money with Canon 300d.
My canon lets me take pictures of what my olympus would not and it is a fact for me. To shoot videos I use a digicam as I haven't seen any camera take any half decent videos. But I haven't seen them all , may be some do. I hope no one gets offended by that.
people here come to ask for oppinions and that what I gave .... while I was looking for some information that I needed myself
you can sit all day and crunch the numbers, dollars, miliseconds .... I don't care.

I love my camera , I am going to upgrade it and will have an even better camera then. It will not be a P&S I guarantee it. I would buy a used DSLR over any latest and greates P&S and it is my oppinion.

I still say that whoever is on the market for a new camera in $600 range should not discount DSLRs as too expensive, too complicated etc.

it is great that you rinniethehun care about P&S cameras so much, and there is definitely a place for them on the market, I even got a $15 disposable camera in my car at all times just in case you can not go cheaper then that, but I feel bad for people who use P&S to shoot sports and kids and then wonder why they can not take a good photograph. I do not base this on what I read or heard ... I base it on my experience I trust it more then reviews, numbers or other people's oppinions.

I am trully sorry if my oppinion that a DSLR is a better then P&S have offended or upset anyone.

Keep up the good work rinniethehun I bet your input in this forum is invaluable. Go get them dumb and uneducaded people like me. Someone has to do it, and I don't have time for it ... I gotta go and take some pictures.


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Old Dec 29, 2006, 7:23 PM   #16
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goddessily,

I apologize to you for derailing your post. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks regarding your camera selection. The S3 IS is a fine camera. Take lots of pics with it as soon as you get it, and make sure that it meets your needs. If you're happy with it, that's all that matters. If you're not, you can always return it and pick up a DSLR, or another brand of advanced digicam.

Good luck with your new camera.

the Hun

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Old Dec 29, 2006, 7:25 PM   #17
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"Go get them dumb and uneducaded people like me."

Don't worry, O.S., I won't tell anybody.

the Hun

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Old Dec 29, 2006, 7:33 PM   #18
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I am that person!

I am a very picky shopper and always think that it preferable invest some extra $$ on a top quality product that will make us happy for a while After reading people rave about DSLRs and looking at the "National Geographic" results I was tempted to maybe get one of those... I soon realized that in order to get a DSLR with the features I wanted, I would have to spit up a whole bunch $$$ to get it all together (lenses, accesories, etc). Unfortunately, my budget was not unlimited... I was very disappointed at first, but that was before I sat down and thought about what I REALLY wanted in a camera

1. Even though I enjoy playing around with manual settings, MOST of my pictures must be taken fast as they are pictures of my 4 children
:shock: I frankly don't have time to mess around with figuring out how to use the camera. I assumed that a Super Zoom camera would take FOREVER to start up and be ready between shots (like my small Olympus from 2002), but they are actually pretty darn fast nowadays! Did you read the comparisions here?

2. I DON'T have time to play with RAW, so that feature is not missed.

3. I DON'T have time to mess with lenses, worry whether I have the right one and worry about babying them.

4. I can't lug a big camera around - the kidos, diaper bag and etc are enough! :lol:

5. I want great pics, and would really love the National Geographic look, but quite frankly: not having time to set up a DSLR camera properly and use all the manual features every time (when all I want is to get the quick shot of the kids doing something cute), that would never happen anyways. Having said that, the samples pictures I have see by a Canon S3 IS are VERY IMPRESSIVE!

6. MOVIES, MOVIES, MOVIES!!! I had NO idea the DSLRs did not have them!! I don't make enough movies to justify buying a real video camera, but I do make a lot of small clips all the time! That was the BIG point for me to choose the
Canon S3 IS :-D I think you will LOVE IT!!!!


I get VERY put off by comments on Digital camera message boards when the DSLR enthusiasts go on and on about how lousy non-DSLRs are. Nobody denies that the quality of DSLRs is STUNNING: they are! But for MANY people, DSLRs' potential ('cause not everyone knows how to use them properly) beautiful pictures comes with cons they don't want to compromise with.

Quote:

No one, including my self is going to contest the photographic quality of a DSLR vs. a P&S, but you need to realize that: 1. Everyone doesn't want to spend $600 on a camera. 2. Everyone doesn't want to lug big heavy cameras and extra lenses around everywhere they go. 3. Everyone doesn't want to have to worry about cleaning dust off mirrors and sensors. 4. Everyone doesn't want to spend hours post-processing raw images to get the best out of every pixel. 5. Everyone doesn't care whether their pictures are good enough for National Geographic submission - they don't care. 6. And some people might like to take a short video clip once in a while, without having to carry a camcorder around with them.
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Old Dec 29, 2006, 7:40 PM   #19
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Not at all the case with my Canon S3
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you will miss all the great shots because you will be waiting for the P&S to start first, then focus then release shutter ... which will take up to 5-10 seconds. how many 2,3,4,5,6 year olds will wait that long?
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Old Dec 29, 2006, 9:27 PM   #20
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good for you guys - I guess I don't know how much the P&S improved in the last couple of years.

as for the DSLR - they only seem complex but to get good shots you don't have to change a thing. just put it in auto mode and shoot away. no need to worry about different lens, I have one lens on mine at all times and I have mine at the same setting all the time ... just pint and press the shutter release
the true fact is - DSLRs are larger then most P&S - though now we got Nikon d40 which is an amazing little camera with great kit lens that will deliver great results. It's light, it's small it costs $580-$600 and you don't need to buy anything else to make great shots with it. No video though and you can not use the LCD screen but only use optical viewfinder - but that's how all DSLRs are.

No doubt that Canon S3 is a good camera too for 380-400 it has a wealth of features etc and decent image quality .....

enjoy



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