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Old Mar 23, 2007, 3:46 AM   #11
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"Actually Fuji just switched over to SD in their new camers."

That is not a true statement. Fuji has added an SD slot on several of their newest cameras. All of those cameras still can utilize xD cards. Therefore, Fuji has not 'switched' over to SD.

" Oh really who but the codevelopers Olympus/Fuji uses them????"

What percentage of cameras sold, worldwide, must utilize a certain memory media before you consider it 'mainstream'?

And what is wrong with Sony's memory card? Or the xD card? They're too small...they're too expensive...they're too...different? You won't buy the camera you really want...the one that best suits your needs, because it doesn't use SD cards?

the Hun


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Old Mar 23, 2007, 7:59 AM   #12
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And what is wrong with Sony's memory card?
Not really wrong but it's simply another in a long line of Sony's failed attempts to create an industry standard. It's proprietary = it only works in Sony devices = it's a PITA.

Same goes for xD - it's proprietary. It works in all of two brands of cameras......AND....it's more expensive /mb than any other type.

Hmmm.....let's see I can plug an SD card into darn near everything. It goes into my PDA, laptop, thumb drive, game console, and phone. Oh yeah, it's also cheap.

<sarcasm> wow, that really sucks </sarcasm>

While it might not be the deal breaker for an otherwise must have camera I can certainly understand the OP's position. Cameras are too close in performance to put up with having to use proprietarystuff - not worth it.

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what leads you to believe compact flash is here to stay?!
Legacy devices using the format, in this case DSLRs whose lifespan is expected to be more than a couple years. That's just one example.



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Old Mar 23, 2007, 7:59 AM   #13
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rinniethehun wrote:
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What percentage of cameras sold, worldwide, must utilize a certain memory media before you consider it 'mainstream'?

And what is wrong with Sony's memory card? Or the xD card? They're too small...they're too expensive...they're too...different? You won't buy the camera you really want...the one that best suits your needs, because it doesn't use SD cards?
The issue is not percentages of cameras, but the general use of the card. By adopting proprietary media, it means the cards are not (a) readily useable in many card readers; (b) not useable in devices other than cameras; (c) not useable even in cameras other than theirs; (d) not useable in many laptop card readers that are pre-installed. You wind up with media for X, more media for Y, and none of them are interchangeable in all your devices (Treo, for instance) or useable in all your readers. It is absurd and utter chaos, not only wasteful and more $$$, but likely to leave you someplace in the middle of a vacation with one less device (like a compatible card reader) that you need.

This reliance on proprietary formats is obnoxious and anti-consumer.

Wherever I can, I will avoid it.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 10:43 AM   #14
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If you're that dead set against xD media here are some of your market options and trade-offs:

1. Telephoto beyond 210mm equiv with IS using SD cards; Panasonic FZ30, Kodak P712, Canon S3IS.

2. To make these camera meet your 28mm requirement the cameras above all will require a wide-angle auxillary lenses which are available for these models. The AUX lenses will generally take these cameras down to 24mm equiv.

3. Tradeoff - xD cards and readers or auxillary wide-angle attachments. My trade-off would xD cards because both my desktop and the card reader I use with my notebook already handle xD, SD, CF and more. I also don't travel with Treos, mp3 players, etc.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 11:12 AM   #15
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You may be right that I have little option and the trade-off of using yet another media format is my only realistic option. That, I guess, was my question.

But I'm more inclined to be patient, and see what happens in the marketplace regarding this category of ultra zooms. I suspect other companies will plunge in with significant competition.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 11:26 AM   #16
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When you buy a camera, you buy into the system...if the system uses xD cards, you buy a couple of xD cards to use in your camera. If the system uses Memory Sticks, you buy a couple of memory sticks. When you upgrade your camera, and the new camera uses a different memory card, you sell your existing cards with the old camera on ebay. I don't see what the issue is. It's not like you're going out and buying new memory cards every day. It's not like they cost $1,000 each, and you need them to last 100 years. If you can't afford to buy a couple of memory cards, and dedicate them to your new camera, maybe you should find another hobby. And why would you ever want to put your camera's memory cards in a game device or phone? This is why cards get corrupted and people lose pictures. Most of the new card readers I've seen in stores, will handle SD, xD, and memory stick. Some will also handle CF cards. A new card reader runs between $10 and $20...c'mon...

Sounds like you're on a crusade...

the Hun
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 11:45 AM   #17
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rinniethehun wrote:
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When you buy a camera, you buy into the system...if the system uses xD cards, you buy a couple of xD cards to use in your camera. If the system uses Memory Sticks, you buy a couple of memory sticks. When you upgrade your camera, and the new camera uses a different memory card, you sell your existing cards with the old camera on ebay. I don't see what the issue is. It's not like you're going out and buying new memory cards every day. It's not like they cost $1,000 each, and you need them to last 100 years. If you can't afford to buy a couple of memory cards, and dedicate them to your new camera, maybe you should find another hobby. And why would you ever want to put your camera's memory cards in a game device or phone? This is why cards get corrupted and people lose pictures. Most of the new card readers I've seen in stores, will handle SD, xD, and memory stick. Some will also handle CF cards. A new card reader runs between $10 and $20...c'mon...
You are vastly oversimplifying the problem, and I don't particularly appreciate the comment on finding another hobby. Perhaps you should spend an extra moment and actually read what I wrote, and think about what you're saying, because plainly you're not getting it, in any way, shape or form.

I can only repeat myself: having to have many different types of media means problems in compatibility with other devices that use them (like Treos) as well as other devices that read them (like card readers). It is not just an issue of cost. It is a problem of never knowing when what you have isn't going to work where you want it when you need it.

You also vastly oversimplify the issue of replacing all the prior technology. It's not just the card reader for my desktop. But also the one for my laptop. The keychain thumb drive reader as well. Damn, my keychain reader is cool. Alas, it won't take xD cards.

Why would you want to use a card for one device in another? Well, why wouldn't you, if it turns out you need to do so and get caught short? Is there a problem with the concept of maximum compatibility? I would presume that the concept of taking a half used card from your Treo and popping it into the camera in a pinch to get some extra shots can only be viewed as PLUS, not a minus. (And vice versa.)

If you don't see problems with the proprietary nonsense we get from companies like Olympus and Sony, that's great. Enjoy! Most people, I think, resent their attempts to control the marketplace with incompatible technology that is designed to wed the consumer to their product line....that's precisely why they do it, and everyone should dislike it.

By the way, quoting from the review of this camera from photographyvoice.com: " For the SP-550, Olympus has opted to continue the use of xD memory cards instead of the now standard SD format. This is good for previous Olympus users who may already have a collection of xD cards, but it does limit storage capacity options. While SD Cards are up to 8GB and beyond, xD caps off at 2GB. This decision appears to be because Olympus manufactures xD cards, but not the SD variety.
This leads to a particular annoyance that Olympus has designed into the camera and its included processing software. Certain features are only available if you are using an Olympus memory card. For example Panorama mode with its assistance feature (and auto stitching with the included software) is not available if you are using a third-party card. Two other features of the Olympus editing software which are missing in this manner are the 3D and Art effects. Tsk, tsk, tsk."


Whether it becomes a make or break issue is up to you. But my first question is always going to be "How is this easier for me?" And if the answer is that it's harder and more expensive, I'll look elsewhere first.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 1:10 PM   #18
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monsieurms wrote:
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You may be right that I have little option and the trade-off of using yet another media format is my only realistic option. That, I guess, was my question.

But I'm more inclined to be patient, and see what happens in the marketplace regarding this category of ultra zooms. I suspect other companies will plunge in with significant competition.
Depending on the market response Canon, Panasonic, and Kodak may well try their hands at zoom lenses beyond 12x. Market response will depend on the technical/engineering skill brought to bear and the trade-offs made in actually creating a product. The dichotomy is that it will also depend on the number of people NOT being turned off by the xD card.

Waiting for next technological advance means that you're waiting forever because technology is always advancing (and at an ever increasing rate.) The question to ask one's self is, "What am I not doing right now because I don't have that tool?" A camera is ultimately a tool of the mind of the user.

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Old Mar 23, 2007, 5:06 PM   #19
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Yes, I've often said that myself about waiting for technology. The good news there is that I have a pretty decent digicam now. If I had none, or only a low rent model, I would not have many options.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 5:27 PM   #20
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"If you don't see problems with the proprietary nonsense we get from companies like Olympus and Sony, that's great. Enjoy! Most people, I think, resent their attempts to control the marketplace with incompatible technology that is designed to wed the consumer to their product line....that's precisely why they do it, and everyone should dislike it."

Let me see if I got this right...if a company designs a digital camera, which utilizes their own sensor design, their own media design, and their own optics, they are attempting to control the marketplace? How? By making a better camera than the competition? Why be in business? If, as you say (if I read your reply correctly) most people resent their attempts to control the marketplace, why aren't they out of business? Why does their market share continue to increase? Why do people buy their cameras? I don't think most people resent Olympus and Sony...I don't think most people agree with you...I think you are really in the minority here.

"You are vastly oversimplifying the problem, and I don't particularly appreciate the comment on finding another hobby. Perhaps you should spend an extra moment and actually read what I wrote, and think about what you're saying, because plainly you're not getting it, in any way, shape or form."

You're right - I'm not getting it - what problem? That different media formats exist? Should we force every company to use the same format? And the same Battery? And the same lens? Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place - no choices...no free enterprise...no technological advances...no evil xD cards.

And, if you didn't appreciate my comment regarding finding a new hobby, you really won't like this one - You should seriously consider seeking professional help. I mean that. You are full of resentment and anger toward a company for trying to increase their market share, by utilizing a media format that is incompatible with your existing equipment. That is not rational.

Sorry...

the Hun


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